Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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MikeAqua

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#3528033 15-Sep-2026 14:32

SaltyNZ:

Councilors and Mayors are just as much elected representatives of the people as MPs and Ministers.

Also: much Fallout, very Liberty Prime. Thanks for ruining that too, National.

If you're referring to the issue I think you are ... Watts may have been referring to board members who aren't elected by the electorate. I don't like the idea of non-elected individuals voting on council decisions either. Councils should be able to take advice from anyone they wish, but voting on council decisions should be strictly for elected officials.

Not following you on the Liberty Prime issue.

Mike

SaltyNZ

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#3528038 15-Sep-2026 14:45

MikeAqua:

If you're referring to the issue I think you are ... Watts may have been referring to board members who aren't elected by the electorate. I don't like the idea of non-elected individuals voting on council decisions either. Councils should be able to take advice from anyone they wish, but voting on council decisions should be strictly for elected officials.

Not following you on the Liberty Prime issue.

Watts was indeed referring to the non-elected board members. But those board members are appointed by the elected members. I didn't vote for Simon Watts to be the Minister - he was appointed to that role by elected members of parliament. I didn't vote for the Governor General either - she was appointed by elected members of parliament. Plenty of precedent for unelected people to have a vote in how the place is run even if you don't want to consider Te Tiriti obligations, which is the real reason this particular government is so hostile to it.

As for Liberty Prime - not a Fallout player from the olden days, I see. Liberty Prime is a giant American robot that kills Communists during the war while constantly blasting out slogans including "Democracy is non-negotiable".

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MikeAqua

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#3528072 15-Sep-2026 17:17

SaltyNZ:

Watts was indeed referring to the non-elected board members. But those board members are appointed by the elected members. I didn't vote for Simon Watts to be the Minister - he was appointed to that role by elected members of parliament. I didn't vote for the Governor General either - she was appointed by elected members of parliament. Plenty of precedent for unelected people to have a vote in how the place is run even if you don't want to consider Te Tiriti obligations, which is the real reason this particular government is so hostile to it.

Simon Watts constituents elected him. His Ministerial warrant doesn't give him special voting powers. He votes in parliament because he was elected to do so. A to the GG ... you live in a country with a sovereign. I seem to remember you in another thread (or maybe earlier in this one) arguing firmly that the GG had no power and did not provide any constitutional safety function.

I have no objection to council working with iwi, consulting with iwi, or having an iwi statutory board. But the council do not need to and should not give those board members votes.

Three years ago, I supported the concept of Maori wards on local government, on a similar basis to the Maori seats in parliament. TPM's conduct convinced me to change my mind on that.

Mike

Handle9

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#3528075 15-Sep-2026 17:25

MikeAqua:

Three years ago, I supported the concept of Maori wards on local government, on a similar basis to the Maori seats in parliament. TPM's conduct convinced me to change my mind on that.

TPM do not represent all Maori. Maori make up 16% of the population while TPM got 3.89% of the party vote in 2023 and are on track to get bugger all this time.

Claiming their conduct should effect the representation of all Maori is like saying the conduct of Winston should effect the representation of those born in Whangarei.

MikeAqua

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#3528175 16-Sep-2026 08:45

Handle9:

TPM do not represent all Maori. Maori make up 16% of the population while TPM got 3.89% of the party vote in 2023 and are on track to get bugger all this time.

Claiming their conduct should effect the representation of all Maori is like saying the conduct of Winston should effect the representation of those born in Whangarei.

I don't see TPM as representative of all Maori. I do see them as indicative of the likely quality of people to be elected in the future in the local Maori ward. They are the people the ~38% of Maori who are on the Maori roll elected. I also considered the performance of the incumbent in the local Maori ward and the lack of interest from other candidates in that ward. Easy decision to tick the remove box.

In the absence of Maori wards, Maori citizens are still represented. Like citizens from every other ethnicity present in NZ, they'd be represented via a general ward.

Mike

Handle9

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#3528226 16-Sep-2026 13:26

MikeAqua:

Handle9:

TPM do not represent all Maori. Maori make up 16% of the population while TPM got 3.89% of the party vote in 2023 and are on track to get bugger all this time.

Claiming their conduct should effect the representation of all Maori is like saying the conduct of Winston should effect the representation of those born in Whangarei.

I don't see TPM as representative of all Maori. I do see them as indicative of the likely quality of people to be elected in the future in the local Maori ward. They are the people the ~38% of Maori who are on the Maori roll elected. I also considered the performance of the incumbent in the local Maori ward and the lack of interest from other candidates in that ward. Easy decision to tick the remove box.

In the absence of Maori wards, Maori citizens are still represented. Like citizens from every other ethnicity present in NZ, they'd be represented via a general ward.

Why would you frame the current TPM are representative of Māori? Why not Tariana Turia, Pita Sharples or Te Ururoa Flavell. You are cherry picking to suit your narrative.

If the criteria for removal is someone is useless, as opposed to the system isn’t working, are we banning candidates of Asian descent because Raymond Chung is a raging lunatic?

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Handle9

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#3528228 16-Sep-2026 13:31

Mark Mitchell and Richard Chalmers seem far more focussed on playing political games with Rakesh Naidoo than taking responsibility for systemic failures in the Tom Phillips affair.

The repeated failure for the public service leadership to take responsibility is very concerning. There was no consequence for Immigration leadership lying to parliament, no one is being held accountable for the Phillips failures and it goes on.

I’m not in favour of wanton firings but these are serious failures and there needs to be consequences , even if you are mates with the minister.

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