UK prime minister Boris Johnson

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#2375621 15-Dec-2019 10:31

Marty Bradbury is a fairly well known lefty, further left than Labour anyway. The point he is making is more than an issue with a minority of hard left protesters, there has been an emergence in recent years following the Trump win and now Boris of a much bigger problem with supporters of centre left parties basically acting like sore losers following elections. I mean even putting the Russian thing aside there really has been no let up of protests and other action against Trump, yes I get that he is a conplete moron and Boris is of a similar disposition but the left seem to be letting themselves get baited time and time again and then their reactions are seen as ridiculous by the public.

In think it is an issue for that side of the political divide, and I have voted centre left and centre right, I make my choice based on which party I think is going to do the best job for the country. I didn’t vote for Labour at the last election because I thought they were lacking any talent and being led by a leader with no real world experience at all and I think given their failures on most of their pre-election promises iI think that’s come back to haunt them.

But i know that there were no big protests by National party supporters following the election, even though National had the most votes by far, I can’t say that would have been the case if Winnie hadn’t accepted our $3b for his mate Jones and picked Jacinda.

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#2375756 15-Dec-2019 12:21

I hate wading into this discussion, because I'm pretty weak in UK politics.\

Boris Johnson and the Coming Trump Victory in 2020

In the postindustrial wasteland, the working class embraced an old Etonian mouthing about unleashed British potential.

New York Times By Roger Cohen Opinion Columnist

Donald Trump, in his telling, could have shot somebody on Fifth Avenue and won. Boris Johnson could mislead the queen. He could break his promise to get Britain out of Europe by Oct. 31. He could lie about Turks invading Britain and the cost of European Union membership. He could make up stories about building 40 new hospitals. He could double down on the phantom $460 million a week that Brexit would deliver to the National Health Service — and still win a landslide Tory electoral victory not seen since Margaret Thatcher’s triumph in 1987.

The British, or at least the English, did not care. Truth is so 20th century. They wanted Brexit done; and, formally speaking, Johnson will now take Britain out of Europe by Jan. 31, 2020, even if all the tough decisions on relations with the union will remain. Johnson was lucky. In the pathetic, emetic Jeremy Corbyn, the soon-to-depart Labour Party leader, he faced perhaps the worst opposition candidate ever. In the Tory press, he had a ferocious friend prepared to overlook every failing. In Brexit-weary British subjects, whiplashed since the 2016 referendum, he had the perfect receptacle for his “get Brexit done.”

...That’s not the only parallel with American politics less than 11 months from the election. Johnson concentrated all the Brexit votes. By contrast, the pro-Remain vote was split between Corbyn’s internally divided Labour Party, the hapless Liberal Democrats, and the Scottish National Party. For anybody contemplating the divisions of the Democratic Party as compared with the Trump movement’s fanatical singleness of purpose, now reinforced by the impeachment proceedings, this can only be worrying.

The clear rejection of Labour’s big-government socialism also looks ominous for Democrats who believe the party can lurch left and win. The British working class did not buy nationalized railways, electricity distribution and water utilities when they could stick it to some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels and — in that phrase as immortal as it is meaningless — take back their country.

It’s a whole new world. To win, liberals have to touch people’s emotions rather than give earnest lessons. They have to cease being arid. They have to refresh and connect. It’s not easy.

Facebook reaches about one-third of humanity. It is more powerful than any political party — and it’s full of untruths, bigotry and nonsense. As Sacha Baron Cohen, the British actor, said last month of the social media behemoths: “The truth is that these companies won’t fundamentally change because their entire business model relies on generating more engagement, and nothing generates more engagement than lies, fear and outrage.”

That’s the story of Brexit, a national tragedy. That’s the story of Johnson, the man of no convictions. That’s the story of Trump, who makes puppets of people through manipulation of outrage and disregard for truth. That’s the story of our times. Johnson gets and fits those times better than most. He’s a natural.
...

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#2375757 15-Dec-2019 12:36

From an October article in theNew York Times: "... hundreds of irate unionists in Northern Ireland poured into the East Belfast Constitutional Social Club to plan how they would resist the agreement, should it eventually become the law of the land.

The assembly of rival factions was the first of its kind in 20 years, unionists say, since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998.

Protestant unionists, who favor preserving the political union between Northern Ireland and Britain, vehemently reject any Brexit arrangement that separates their territory from the rest of the United Kingdom. Mr. Johnson’s new proposal, which would take Britain out of the European Union but leave Northern Ireland effectively in the bloc’s customs union and single market, does just that, they say, drawing a border down the Irish Sea.

But what may rankle most, in the unionists’ view, is the stab in the back by Mr. Johnson, who once promised — as had his predecessor, Theresa May — that no 'British government could or should' sign off on a plan that divided Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom...."

marmel

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#2375808 15-Dec-2019 13:14

Some good points in that piece, especially about Corbyn being the worst ever candidate Labour had put forth.

A lot of similarities with the last US election, with Hillary and all the baggage she brought to the table.

Will the Democrats learn anything from those elections though? Doubtful, they are on track to go down the same path as Labour have just travelled and it’s apparent how that ends.

Where are all the good centre-left leaders?? The Democrats and Labour have some of the greatest leaders in history but i can’t think of a single one I would have voted for over recent years.

Where are the Helen Clark’s, Obama’s, hell even Bill Clinton was respected, impeachment and all.

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#2375871 15-Dec-2019 16:06

marmel: But i know that there were no big protests by National party supporters following the election, even though National had the most votes by far, I can’t say that would have been the case if Winnie hadn’t accepted our $3b for his mate Jones and picked Jacinda.

Just like the protests in 2008, 2011 and 2014? Oh yeah there weren't any...

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#2375877 15-Dec-2019 16:20

Handle9:
marmel: But i know that there were no big protests by National party supporters following the election, even though National had the most votes by far, I can’t say that would have been the case if Winnie hadn’t accepted our $3b for his mate Jones and picked Jacinda.

Just like the protests in 2008, 2011 and 2014? Oh yeah there weren't any...

If you had read through the thread we are talking recent times, as in the last 3-4 years.

The last political protest I can recall in NZ is when the TPP protesters shut down some roads in Auckland. Funnily enough, when Labour then came to power and passed the TPP into law I can’t recall any protests at all......Must of all been busy that day.

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#2375889 15-Dec-2019 17:06

marmel:
Handle9:
marmel: But i know that there were no big protests by National party supporters following the election, even though National had the most votes by far, I can’t say that would have been the case if Winnie hadn’t accepted our $3b for his mate Jones and picked Jacinda.

Just like the protests in 2008, 2011 and 2014? Oh yeah there weren't any...

If you had read through the thread we are talking recent times, as in the last 3-4 years.

The last political protest I can recall in NZ is when the TPP protesters shut down some roads in Auckland. Funnily enough, when Labour then came to power and passed the TPP into law I can’t recall any protests at all......Must of all been busy that day.

Lol. Selective memory is a funny thing. There's the Destiny marches, tractors being driven up on parliament steps and most recently the gun lobby.

You can believe what you want but the facts are somewhat different.

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#2375891 15-Dec-2019 17:08

Agree with above. Apart from that, why the focus on the left? Even if you are correct (I don't think you are), what difference does it make? What is your point?

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#2375892 15-Dec-2019 17:17

Rikkitic:
Agree with above. Apart from that, why the focus on the left? Even if you are correct (I don't think you are), what difference does it make? What is your point?

This thread is about Boris. Boris is the leader of a centre-right party which has just thrashed a centre-left>>> party. The issues for the centre left are what has been discussed, the protests are a part of that. When you have a staunch lefty like Bradbury stating on Twitter that he thinks there is a problem I think there probably is. The inability of the Democrats to look inwards after the last US election is a prime example, the finger was pointed at every man and his dog but themselves. They risk a repeat next year and four more years of Trump. Self review should be an essential part of any political party surely?

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#2375915 15-Dec-2019 18:29

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Way off subject, but they need a charismatic candidate. Joe Biden's not a bad person, but with 15 candidates still in the running, there's no shortage of options.

Please don't be another old billionaire like Michael Bloomberg.

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#2375925 15-Dec-2019 18:52

marmel:
Rikkitic:

Agree with above. Apart from that, why the focus on the left? Even if you are correct (I don't think you are), what difference does it make? What is your point?

This thread is about Boris. Boris is the leader of a centre-right party which has just thrashed a centre-left>>> party. The issues for the centre left are what has been discussed, the protests are a part of that. When you have a staunch lefty like Bradbury stating on Twitter that he thinks there is a problem I think there probably is. The inability of the Democrats to look inwards after the last US election is a prime example, the finger was pointed at every man and his dog but themselves. They risk a repeat next year and four more years of Trump. Self review should be an essential part of any political party surely?

4 way / 2 axis chart from PoliticalCompass.

That puts UK Labour a damned site closer to centre left than the Conservatives are to centre right.

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#2375942 15-Dec-2019 19:40

Age split (extract from Lord Ashcroft post vote poll):

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#2375943 15-Dec-2019 19:44

Fred99:
Age split (extract from Lord Ashcroft post vote poll):

I wonder if this will carry through to the coming decades? I know one of the issues with the younger generation is actually getting them to vote. I suspect as people age their life views change and more do actually vote so it will be interesting to see if the big favour towards centre left parties amongst younger voters lasts.

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#2375953 15-Dec-2019 20:04

marmel:
Fred99:
Age split (extract from Lord Ashcroft post vote poll):

I wonder if this will carry through to the coming decades? I know one of the issues with the younger generation is actually getting them to vote. I suspect as people age their life views change and more do actually vote so it will be interesting to see if the big favour towards centre left parties amongst younger voters lasts.

It's more likely that people's views change as they age. I suspect that you would find a similar graph over many generations. Certainly amoung my peer group this has been my experience.

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#2375985 15-Dec-2019 20:49

That's a pretty radical shift, much more than I'd expect by an aging population.

I'd guess it's the older generation waxing nostalgic when "the sun never sets on the British Empire." It's as likely Britannia ruling the waves with wooden sailing ships again.

Frankly maybe Brexit is the hard cold sobering slap in the face the UK needs, to its significance in the world: ninth in the world by GDP, and the US best lackey.

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