UK prime minister Boris Johnson

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › UK prime minister Boris Johnson

1 | ... | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | ... | 45

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9566

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2376062 16-Dec-2019 07:44

marmel:

The last political protest I can recall in NZ is when the TPP protesters shut down some roads in Auckland. Funnily enough, when Labour then came to power and passed the TPP into law I can’t recall any protests at all......Must of all been busy that day.

Fine: I'll bite. The reason the TPP that became law wasn't protested was not because Jacinda wowed us into worshiping the ground she walks on with her aura of left-wing godliness.

It was because Trump pulled out of it as practically his first act as president, and the remaining countries immediately removed all the most heinously objectionable bits that the US had demanded to have in it to benefit themselves and their huge megacorporations at the expense of everyone else.

I was anti-TPP until that happened, and then I wasn't. Exactly as a reasonable person should be once their objections are addressed.

So, thanks Trump, I guess.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Dingbatt

6804 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3694

Lifetime subscriber

#2376065 16-Dec-2019 07:53

kingdragonfly: That's a pretty radical shift, much more than I'd expect by an aging population.

I'd guess it's the older generation waxing nostalgic when "the sun never sets on the British Empire." It's as likely Britannia ruling the waves with wooden sailing ships again.

Frankly maybe Brexit is the hard cold sobering slap in the face the UK needs, to its significance in the world: ninth in the world by GDP, and the US best lackey.

What a pathetic generalisation. You forgot to balance your comment with the ‘brainwashed youth” that have been indoctrinated by leftist teachers and lecturers for the last 30 years.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2287
Inactive user

#2376087 16-Dec-2019 08:59

Fred99:

4 way / 2 axis chart from PoliticalCompass.

That puts UK Labour a damned site closer to centre left than the Conservatives are to centre right.

This chart is just not right. The Lib Dems are slightly left of centre. No way are they right wing. And saying that Labour is closer to the centre than the Tories is just ridiculous with the current Labour party.

And including UKIP and the Brexit party is pointless as they are one issue parties.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2376139 16-Dec-2019 10:13

SJB:

This chart is just not right. The Lib Dems are slightly left of centre. No way are they right wing. And saying that Labour is closer to the centre than the Tories is just ridiculous with the current Labour party.

And including UKIP and the Brexit party is pointless as they are one issue parties.

No chart is ever right, I expressed skepticism about the old definition of left and right wing not being much use these days and didn't get the feeling that anybody believed me, add an other axis with authoritarian / libertarian is just asking for trouble.

That said, I do think things have shifted to "the right" - plenty of examples in western democracy.

The Brexit Party did have policies - on balance they are surprisingly "left wing". The skeptic in me suggests that talk is cheap for minority populists and that the main policy was certainly not "liberal", but who knows? That some "workers" oppose immigration because it could be argued it lowers wages has an element of truth, then is contradicted by plenty of evidence it doesn't. Corbyn was between a rock and a hard place on Brexit - he was doomed whatever he did. Shouldn't forget that two Tory PMs were doomed by more-or-less the same.

SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2287
Inactive user

#2376177 16-Dec-2019 11:32

Fred99:

No chart is ever right, I expressed skepticism about the old definition of left and right wing not being much use these days and didn't get the feeling that anybody believed me, add an other axis with authoritarian / libertarian is just asking for trouble.

That said, I do think things have shifted to "the right" - plenty of examples in western democracy.

The Brexit Party did have policies - on balance they are surprisingly "left wing". The skeptic in me suggests that talk is cheap for minority populists and that the main policy was certainly not "liberal", but who knows? That some "workers" oppose immigration because it could be argued it lowers wages has an element of truth, then is contradicted by plenty of evidence it doesn't. Corbyn was between a rock and a hard place on Brexit - he was doomed whatever he did. Shouldn't forget that two Tory PMs were doomed by more-or-less the same.

I think Johnson might turn out to be more centrist than expected. He knows where the bulk of votes come from in the UK and it's not 25 year old activists.

The last time Labour were popular with Blair it was because he occupied the middle ground.

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2376683 17-Dec-2019 01:58

kingdragonfly: That's a pretty radical shift, much more than I'd expect by an aging population.

I'd guess it's the older generation waxing nostalgic when "the sun never sets on the British Empire." It's as likely Britannia ruling the waves with wooden sailing ships again.

Frankly maybe Brexit is the hard cold sobering slap in the face the UK needs, to its significance in the world: ninth in the world by GDP, and the US best lackey.

Regardless the result of this election was clearly decided by two issues. Brexit and Corbyn. Both have created clarity of what the UK population support (or don't). The combination gives a clear mandate for Brexit.

Brexit needs to get done, in whatever form it needs to happen. Personally I think it's negative but that's the democracy and what the population want.

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

gzt

18690 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#2376813 17-Dec-2019 09:59

It's a good point. Probably a lack of Corbyn rather than too much Corbyn. Ironically Corbyn has a long record of being anti-EU.

Sideface

9652 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15607

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2377059 17-Dec-2019 14:41

The Times of London - Election 2019: Boris Johnson takes tough new line on Brexit trade talks

today

Prime minister scraps concessions to Remainers that could delay transition period

Boris Johnson will redraw his Brexit bill this week to make it illegal for parliament to extend the transition period - a move that will put him in direct conflict with Brussels.

In one of his first acts since the election, the emboldened prime minister will also drop concessions that he made to Remainers in the last parliament on areas including workers’ rights.

But it is the new clause in the withdrawal agreement bill to outlaw an extension of the transition period beyond the end of next year that will be most eye-catching.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has warned that striking a free-trade deal 11 months after Brexit will not be possible ...

Yet another about-face by Boris ...

Sideface

Dingbatt

6804 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3694

Lifetime subscriber

#2377082 17-Dec-2019 14:55

I don’t see why you think this is an about-face by Johnson. It has been his ethos all along. Now that he doesn’t have to pander to multiple interest groups for the sake of appeasement he can return to it.

I expect him to go to Brussels with a “take it or leave it” deal rather than the Chamberlain-like negotiations that have gone on previously as well.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

elpenguino

3577 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2940

#2377087 17-Dec-2019 15:04

Dingbatt:

I don’t see why you think this is an about-face by Johnson. It has been his ethos all along. Now that he doesn’t have to pander to multiple interest groups for the sake of appeasement he can return to it.

I expect him to go to Brussels with a “take it or leave it” deal rather than the Chamberlain-like negotiations that have gone on previously as well.

The answer will be leave it.

Bring it on !

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2377088 17-Dec-2019 15:06

Dingbatt:

I don’t see why you think this is an about-face by Johnson. It has been his ethos all along. Now that he doesn’t have to pander to multiple interest groups for the sake of appeasement he can return to it.

I expect him to go to Brussels with a “take it or leave it” deal rather than the Chamberlain-like negotiations that have gone on previously as well.

Boris is actually going to have to be nice with his approach - or he'll be thoroughly shafted by the EU.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

gzt

18690 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#2377090 17-Dec-2019 15:06

But it is the new clause in the withdrawal agreement bill to outlaw an extension of the transition period beyond the end of next year that will be most eye-catching.

Isn't that just for show and tell? I can't see how that makes a difference to an actual parliament. Which will vote for it anyway...

SJB

2945 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2287
Inactive user

#2377167 17-Dec-2019 17:10

A complete trade deal in 11 months is not feasible. IMO they will agree on a some important areas eg fishing and agriculture so that both sides can claim success and the rest will be negotiated over a much longer period after that.

Barnier is yesterdays man. He's on his bike already isn't he?

Sideface

9652 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15607

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2377239 17-Dec-2019 18:33

An American view ...

The Washington Post - Could Scotland become the next Catalonia?

today

The battle lines are being drawn.

Just days after Britain’s election, in which the Conservatives led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson won a clear majority in Parliament, there’s trouble brewing to the north.

The results in Scotland represented a huge victory for the Scottish National Party, a center-left faction that wants nothing to do with most Conservative policies, least of all Brexit.

Even as Johnson urged unity, Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP and Scotland’s first minister, reiterated her party’s demand for another independence referendum.

She cast the election, in which her party won 80 percent of Scotland’s seats, as a “watershed moment” and said that listening to Scotland’s independence aspirations was a matter of democratic fairness.

“You cannot hold Scotland in the union against its will. … If the United Kingdom is to continue it can only be by consent,” Sturgeon told the BBC on Monday.
“And if Boris Johnson is confident in the case for the union then he should be confident enough to make that case and allow people to decide.”

Johnson has indicated that he will turn down any new demand for another separation vote. But Sturgeon is building momentum for another bid.

This week, she’s expected to formally put forth a legal argument for independence.

On Thursday, Scotland’s regional parliament in Edinburgh is slated to vote on a bill that would be the first step in the process of formally requesting that the British government give Scotland the right to hold a referendum. ...

Sideface

GV27

5978 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2377241 17-Dec-2019 18:37

Boris will just say no.

The Scots will keep asking for referendums until they get a result they like. They may change their tune if someone tells them what they want to happen will cost.

1 | ... | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | ... | 45