Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3181918 15-Jan-2024 08:13

GV27:

There's a need for Light Rail in Auckland and now hopefully we will see a return to the discussions about surface level light rail like many other modern cities manage to build for a fraction of the cost we were told it would be here.

This ain't the government to have that conversation. If your proposal is not MOAR RODES then Simeon is not interested in hearing about it.

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GV27

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#3181920 15-Jan-2024 08:26

SaltyNZ:

This ain't the government to have that conversation. If your proposal is not MOAR RODES then Simeon is not interested in hearing about it.

So in other words, the outcome is literally exactly the same without being gaslight about a hugely expensive project that blew out past anything that could possibly be justified for a single branch of light rail?

Not seeing much of a problem there. The end result is literally the same.

quickymart

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#3181922 15-Jan-2024 08:32

GV27:

When enough time has passed and we have agencies capable of communicating the (real) need for it and not using it as a stalking horse for their actual pet projects (tunnels under the Harbour) then we might actually get a shot at building something.

Yes, following on your logic, let's just keep talking about it without doing anything, as that seems to work so well 🙄 Case in point, speaking of a second harbour crossing, how long have they been talking about that for again? It's 2024, do we have a second crossing yet? Maybe we should talk about it some more.

GV27

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#3181928 15-Jan-2024 08:43

quickymart:

Yes, following on your logic, let's just keep talking about it without doing anything, as that seems to work so well 🙄 Case in point, speaking of a second harbour crossing, how long have they been talking about that for again? It's 2024, do we have a second crossing yet? Maybe we should talk about it some more.

My 'logic' is that if Light Rail actually mattered, they wouldn't have let it be undermined for six years without ever actually building anything.

I know the idea of actually delivering a project must seem confusing but at some point if you keep dropping the ball on it, people are going to infer that maybe you aren't that serious about it in the first place.

SaltyNZ

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#3181994 15-Jan-2024 09:49

GV27:

I know the idea of actually delivering a project must seem confusing but at some point if you keep dropping the ball on it, people are going to infer that maybe you aren't that serious about it in the first place.

Yes, that's true, Labour were objectively not serious about it. But that's not quite the same as the NAFT government who are completely antithetical to anything that isn't a road.

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GV27

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#3182047 15-Jan-2024 10:00

SaltyNZ:

Yes, that's true, Labour were objectively not serious about it. But that's not quite the same as the NAFT government who are completely antithetical to anything that isn't a road.

And yet nothing of value was lost.

The question is will Labour learn their lesson by the time they are next in power to the extent they can actually do something, or will they continue to lecture everyone about climate change and incite moral panic about National, whilst in the background they slash climate funds and drop the ball on things like public transport infrastructure?

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#3182050 15-Jan-2024 10:06

GV27:

The question is will Labour learn their lesson by the time they are next in power to the extent they can actually do something,

All signs point to NO... :-/

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tdgeek

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#3182051 15-Jan-2024 10:08

GV27:

The question is will Labour learn their lesson by the time they are next in power to the extent they can actually do something, or will they continue to lecture everyone about climate change and incite moral panic about National, whilst in the background they slash climate funds and drop the ball on things like public transport infrastructure?

Sounds like a comment pointed at both Labour AND National

GV27

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#3182055 15-Jan-2024 10:22

tdgeek:

Sounds like a comment pointed at both Labour AND National

Realistically, it is. National's biggest drubbing was on the back of a lack of action housing (despite the fact Labour got in and made things worse and did even less to fix it) and if Bill English had acknowledged the need for reform he would have been forming a government in 2017.

Yet they are six years later trying to give investors back all the trimmings that got us into this mess in the first place.

ezbee

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#3182060 15-Jan-2024 10:29

Other places may have built out light rail ( Or anything really ) at a lower cost as

1/ They did it many years ago, and its never cheaper than then to have built anything.
Its never cheaper than the past to acquire land, move heritage buildings etc.
Similarly of Auckland had built out public transport in Mayor Robbie days it would have been chickenfeed.

2/ They may have wider streets that used to have trams, or just built for a 4-6 lane future.
Land acquisitions avoided, and the infamous undergrounding which I expect was necessary due to lack of space.
This avoids allowance for those that don't want to sell, NIMBY court actions etc too.

3/ If you talk about Europe then you probably have companies competitively bidding that are actively extending and building networks.
You have a workforce and machinery, just down the road ready to go which is a huge saving.

If they could have you have to wonder, why they did not put in a bid.
Elon can do everything cheaper, look at that triumph of public transport the Boring Company created in Vegas. :-)

tdgeek

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#3182062 15-Jan-2024 10:40

GV27:

Realistically, it is. National's biggest drubbing was on the back of a lack of action housing (despite the fact Labour got in and made things worse and did even less to fix it) and if Bill English had acknowledged the need for reform he would have been forming a government in 2017.

Yet they are six years later trying to give investors back all the trimmings that got us into this mess in the first place.

The issues we have were decades in the making. Clark Labour didnt act, Key National didnt act, 2017 Labour didnt act, and 2023 National wont act. Pick your poison, Housing, Health, Education, Infrastructure, etc

Now, this is effectively the new Government thread, posters should be discussing that. This thread is about Oct 2023 and onwards. If accountability means bag the previous Government, thats avoiding accountability. The Kiwi Blame Game. When posters bagged what National left behind in 2017 (housing, health, education, infrastructure etc) that wasn't acceptable. One poster stated you can't say that now. Or is it now different?

tdgeek

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#3182064 15-Jan-2024 10:45

ezbee:

Other places may have built out light rail ( Or anything really ) at a lower cost as

1/ They did it many years ago, and its never cheaper than then to have built anything.
Its never cheaper than the past to acquire land, move heritage buildings etc.
Similarly of Auckland had built out public transport in Mayor Robbie days it would have been chickenfeed.

2/ They may have wider streets that used to have trams, or just built for a 4-6 lane future.
Land acquisitions avoided, and the infamous undergrounding which I expect was necessary due to lack of space.
This avoids allowance for those that don't want to sell, NIMBY court actions etc too.

3/ If you talk about Europe then you probably have companies competitively bidding that are actively extending and building networks.
You have a workforce and machinery, just down the road ready to go which is a huge saving.

If they could have you have to wonder, why they did not put in a bid.
Elon can do everything cheaper, look at that triumph of public transport the Boring Company created in Vegas. :-)

Also that NZ is half the size of many foreign cities. Ive always wondered how many people will actually USE the light rail? Is it a massive star network where everyone is at it or nearby? Will there be masses of commuters using it, as in keeping it financially viable?

SaltyNZ

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#3182067 15-Jan-2024 10:48

Agreed, and even better we don't need to go through the "let's give the new government the benefit of the doubt" phase. We already know they have no plans to achieve anything*, just to tear down what little the previous government managed to achieve. It's all helpfully set out in the coalition agreements.

*Except for bringing back pseudoephedrine which as far as I am concerned, rock on.

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elpenguino

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#3182139 15-Jan-2024 11:33

GV27:

When enough time has passed and we have agencies capable of communicating the (real) need for it and not using it as a stalking horse for their actual pet projects (tunnels under the Harbour) then we might actually get a shot at building something.

It took Mataura 19 years to get a welcome sign so good luck with that :-)

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quickymart

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#3182169 15-Jan-2024 12:07

GV27:

quickymart:

Yes, following on your logic, let's just keep talking about it without doing anything, as that seems to work so well 🙄 Case in point, speaking of a second harbour crossing, how long have they been talking about that for again? It's 2024, do we have a second crossing yet? Maybe we should talk about it some more.

My 'logic' is that if Light Rail actually mattered, they wouldn't have let it be undermined for six years without ever actually building anything.

I know the idea of actually delivering a project must seem confusing but at some point if you keep dropping the ball on it, people are going to infer that maybe you aren't that serious about it in the first place.

Maybe you should become a politician then, you seem to have all the answers. Seriously, why not consider it? You're not happy with the former lot (or sound too enthused about the current ones), so why not put your hand up?

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