Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3188632 30-Jan-2024 19:32

Rikkitic: And really profitable for those who make them!

In addition to all the standalone vape shops opening it seems like every week another dairy divides it's space in two and creates a vape shop. It's very clearly the new smoking.

SaltyNZ

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#3189242 1-Feb-2024 13:23

Notwithstanding Luxon's emotional junior minister defense, we are back to Casey Costello proactively requesting an excise freeze on tobacco. NAFT government captured by the tobacco industry.

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elpenguino

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#3189261 1-Feb-2024 14:01

SaltyNZ:

Notwithstanding Luxon's emotional junior minister defense, we are back to Casey Costello proactively requesting an excise freeze on tobacco. NAFT government captured by the tobacco industry.

Smoking is OK again and horse racing is actually the pinnacle of entertainment.

Winston told us he was going to MAGA and he has.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

MikeB4

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#3189302 1-Feb-2024 15:47

I disagree with the tobacco excise, its a dishonest double standard. Governments over the last couple of decades should have done honest and right thing and banned tobacco products.

freitasm

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#3189304 1-Feb-2024 15:51

MikeB4:

I disagree with the tobacco excise, its a dishonest double standard. Governments over the last couple of decades should have done honest and right thing and banned tobacco products.

And then National comes in, removes the plan to reduce tobacco consumption and increases tax on tobacco products. Because if people are going to smoke, let's make money of it. And keep the market safe for the tobacco industry.

This government has shown mo interest for national health or morals.

sen8or

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#3189314 1-Feb-2024 16:39

Removing the ban on tobacco sales was politically (and perhaps morally) stupid, but I get the argument about sales being driven underground / into the hands of the gangs if its banned outright. Education and social change will likely have a bigger impact on reducing tobacco sales / use than a ban. Didn't work for alcohol, arguably doesn't work for drugs (cannabis etc) and vaping now seems to be the new smoking. At least if its sold under legislation and there are checks and balances around the supply, its better than those who sell to anyone with the $

MikeB4

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#3189351 1-Feb-2024 16:49

Pseudoephedrine was banned as it was bad for us and the gangs were using it for drugs. However we don't ban tobacco although it's bad for us and is in the hands of the gangs, hmm now which one does the government earn millions from?

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elpenguino

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#3189353 1-Feb-2024 17:01

sen8or:

Removing the ban on tobacco sales was politically (and perhaps morally) stupid, but I get the argument about sales being driven underground / into the hands of the gangs if its banned outright. Education and social change will likely have a bigger impact on reducing tobacco sales / use than a ban.

I dont think education will get us all the way to smoke free. After all, there has been a helpful health message on every pack of fags for years and people are still smoking.

Price rises are shown to be helpful at reducing smoking rates. As well as drinking rates and soft drink consumption. No wonder the food industry objected so strongly to suggestion of a sugar tax some years ago - they knew it would hit them in the bottom line.

https://drugfoundation.org.nz/articles/a-price-too-far

At the end of the day, a decision has to be made about societal harm and any ban has to be policed.

Tobacco causes more deaths than marijuana but society chooses to ban one of these and take the risk of gangs profiting from trade in it, so the other could be dealt with the same way.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

SaltyNZ

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#3189368 1-Feb-2024 18:18

sen8or:

Removing the ban on tobacco sales was politically (and perhaps morally) stupid, but I get the argument about sales being driven underground / into the hands of the gangs if its banned outright.

So why did all three of these parties vote against cannabis legalisation?

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gzt

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#3189385 1-Feb-2024 19:23

sen8or: , but I get the argument about sales being driven underground / into the hands of the gangs if its banned outright.

As far as I'm aware an outright ban was not planned.

MikeB4

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#3189396 1-Feb-2024 19:48

@SaltyNZ parliament would have whole heartily support cannibis if they had a feasible way of taxing it.

ezbee

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#3189401 1-Feb-2024 20:11

Oh there would have been tax money.

Plenty/most people who have space to grow their own veggies,
buy them from Supermarket after all.
Never mind processed oil for vapes and all sorts of other value added products, that GST and Tax can be levied on

I was not keen on it but would have accepted either way.

The vote against was about as marginal as you get 50.9%. No dunks were slammed.
Really showed it was a decision more for adults in the room, Government.
We the people are not strongly one way or the other. NZF referendum a damp squib really.

A vote on Pseudoephedrine would probably have shown a far greater margin for, It never got a vote though.

We will wait for big brother Australia, to lead the way :-)

MikeB4

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#3189572 2-Feb-2024 09:30

AUKUS, this worries me. With Collins and Peters in cozy chats with the Australians I get the uneasy feeling these clowns are going to get us hocked up in this alliance. If we do we are certain to see Australian Submarines in our waters and no doubt US as well. It wouldn't surprise me if the US pushed for more bases here.

Kiwis need to be vigilant

SaltyNZ

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#3189574 2-Feb-2024 09:38

I'm in two minds about it. I think we need to face the reality that for a whole bunch of reasons - not least of which is that we've missed 1.5C and are on track to blow past 2, 3 or maybe 4 - this century is going to get really messy. Putin isn't going home just because someone asks him nicely. Xi is only one domestic crisis away from invading Taiwan (or someone else who happens to disagree with China's ridiculous claims on the South China Sea). Hundreds of millions if not billions of people are going to be displaced as their homes become lethally hot, underwater, or both.

I don't think we can afford to stand by and not attempt to stand up for the rules based order.

On the other hand, the US is currently not exactly helping the rules based order with either its unconditional support for Israel and their genocidal Gaza campaign nor their political trend towards dumb**** Trumpism.

I honestly don't know where I stand on it.

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GV27

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#3189579 2-Feb-2024 10:14

MikeB4:

@SaltyNZ parliament would have whole heartily support cannibis if they had a feasible way of taxing it.

I felt like the tax argument was a dead heron. If we legalised growing it ourselves then was anyone actually going to pay the tax at a dispensary?

The real impediment always seemed to be the impaired driving and workplace health & safety bits which weren't possible at the time in the case of the former and entirely glossed over in the latter. Had those been managed better, it would have probably gotten over the line.

I voted for it but I wasn't super-impressed by the arguments put forward for how it would actually work.

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