Ukraine War discussion

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MikeB4
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#2873042 23-Feb-2022 07:25

Daynger:
Looks like its kicking off.

Putin has declared he is sending in "peacekeepers" into Donbass region after declaring them independent states.

US, UK, Aus, EU have replied with sanctions.

China has struck back with sanctions against the USA.

Sharemarkets are about to take a nosedive and fuel prices are about to skyrocket.

This could get really spicy really quickly.

“Reallly spicy” is not the best or compassionate term to describe the real and dangerous risk to human life.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

gzt

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#2873043 23-Feb-2022 07:34

It could be even more serious. The recent statement may apply to the entirety of the respective regions not just the areas controlled by Russia backed forces shaded in blue.

Gurezaemon

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#2873081 23-Feb-2022 09:33

The wiki page on the putative Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) is not encouraging - it includes this snippet:

The Republic's economy is frequently described as dependent on contraband and gunrunning,[162] with some labelling it a mafia state. Joining DPR military formations or its civil services has become one of the few guarantees for a stable income in the DPR.[122]

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frankv

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#2873150 23-Feb-2022 10:43

Gurezaemon:

Joining DPR military formations or its civil services has become one of the few guarantees for a stable income in the DPR.

And perhaps this is somewhat at the bottom of the whole mess? If this somewhat-Russian-ethnic enclave is an economic ghetto and perhaps significantly worse off than the rest of Ukraine, it provides incentive, or at least opportunity, for Putin to get involved.

SaltyNZ

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#2873152 23-Feb-2022 10:48

I suspect it being an economic ghetto is the effect, not the cause. But you're not wrong that Putin wouldn't waste the excuse.

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clinty

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#2874163 24-Feb-2022 16:48

Putin makes his move :(

Russia announces 'special military operation' in Ukraine

Biden's response

Clint

Edit: Fixed URL and added Bidens response

Dingbatt

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#2874164 24-Feb-2022 16:50

I feel really sorry for the ordinary citizens who probably just want to get on with their lives.

Now that Russian forces have moved on western provinces it will be be those citizens that suffer most rather than the politicians giving orders.

But I do have to wonder at headlines like the one in the NZHerald “Russia declares war on Ukraine”. I read the whole article and couldn’t see where any such declaration was made. Yes, they have attacked, but a declaration of war is a very specific thing.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

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#2874166 24-Feb-2022 16:55

Dingbatt:

I feel really sorry for the ordinary citizens who probably just want to get on with their lives.

Now that Russian forces have moved on western provinces it will be be those citizens that suffer most rather than the politicians giving orders.

But I do have to wonder at headlines like the one in the NZHerald “Russia declares war on Ukraine”. I read the whole article and couldn’t see where any such declaration was made. Yes, they have attacked, but a declaration of war is a very specific thing.

Well, Putin has made a statement that any nation that interferes, will be dealt with in a "manner never seen before". Seems pretty clear he intends to invade.

MikeB4

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#2874167 24-Feb-2022 16:56

NATO and the US need to leave their forces out of this. Impose sanctions and call on the UN to begin immediate talks to bring this to an end. Military escalation will be very costly in human life of all sides.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dingbatt

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#2874172 24-Feb-2022 17:05

networkn:

Well, Putin has made a statement that any nation that interferes, will be dealt with in a "manner never seen before". Seems pretty clear he intends to invade.

My point is that a declaration of war is a specific (legal) thing. (Think in terms of Neville Chamberlain’s address to Parliament in September 1939). It points to the fact the folks at the NZH don’t really know what they are talking about because there wasn’t a specific module on it at journalism school.

There is no doubt they have carried out an offensive action, invaded if you like.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

ezbee

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#2874174 24-Feb-2022 17:10

Putin declares operation to ‘demilitarise’ Ukraine

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/23/ukraine-russia-news-crisis-latest-live-updates-putin-biden-europe-sanctions-russian-invasion-border-troops

This is all very sad people wil die and suffer and not just military, normal people in between, and those who at any point said something against Putin.
People who don't want to live with a puppet leader become enemies of the new state to be hunted down, just for their words.
So he can be a big man apparently. Such insecurity.

I want my old soviet empire back again, it must have shaken him to the core when he was in KGB in East Germany and saw it allowed to drift away.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32066222

""
The answer he received was a devastating, life-changing shock.

"We cannot do anything without orders from Moscow," the voice at the other end replied. "And Moscow is silent."

That phrase, "Moscow is silent" has haunted this man ever since. Defiant yet helpless as the 1989 revolution swept over him, he has now himself become "Moscow" - the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin.
""

If only Boris Yeltsin had not been a hopeless alcoholic, maybe Putin would have missed his chance to be elevated ...

gzt

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#2874184 24-Feb-2022 17:28

Explosions in Kiev during security council meeting. I hope some way can be found to stop this action and resume negotiations. This is very sad. It has potential to change the world in many ways that we cannot imagine at this time.

Kookoo

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#2874201 24-Feb-2022 17:51

insane:

Are they not self sufficient with Tupolev aircraft etc. And if third world countries can reverse engineer parts etc then I'm sure the Russians have that covered. The West makes them appear inept and incapable, but reality seems anything but.

Also their new Ally China would likely be happy to help to stick it to the US

This is going to get interesting for sure

No they are not. Their aircraft industries are in disarray. They've been trying to build an airliner for decades and have failed miserably each time. The last effort relied heavily on partnerships with US suppliers and again failed to gain traction. All Russia does is extract and sell natural resources.

When it comes to the military, they lack gen-5 fighters, the Armata platform hasn't reached mass-production, and the navy is mostly a shambles with some notable exceptions. Putin knows that, the West knows that. So the west called his bluff and he decided to go all-in with everything he's got. He'll probably get away with it, but I have no idea how the country will survive if they're slammed with comprehensive sanctions.

Hello, Ground!

tdgeek

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#2874202 24-Feb-2022 17:52

gzt: Explosions in Kiev during security council meeting. I hope some way can be found to stop this action and resume negotiations. This is very sad. It has potential to change the world in many ways that we cannot imagine at this time.

Yep, Russia, China, US and the West at odds

Oil and gas is involved as is China exports and imports, and of course, prestige. US and the West to defend or react, Russia to get back some of its previous empire and help Putins waning support, and China to get what makes it happy at the expense of its major import and export partners.

All of these factors will suffer but mostly will the citizens.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2874205 24-Feb-2022 17:57

Statement from the White House

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/23/statement-by-president-biden-on-russias-unprovoked-and-unjustified-attack-on-ukraine/

I've been watching CNN since about 4pm. During the live crosses to reporters in Kyiv and Kharkiv you could clearly hear what sounded like explosions in the background

According the CNN reporter, the Ukraine have a military airbase near Kyiv which in a recent report from him is what they thought might be being targeted by the Russian's

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