Ukraine War discussion

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#2888439 18-Mar-2022 18:34

Interesting

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/us-china-call-ukraine-war-analysis/index.html

Maybe not interesting but yet another line in the sand. US vs China over Russia/Ukraine

China wants to satisfy China. US wants to satisfy US. Russia is small. Yes, it has oil and gas. But its in US and China interests to trade well. Does China need Russia? Not IMO.

tdgeek

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#2888441 18-Mar-2022 18:47

Biden has stated that, prior to his call with Xi, that Putin is a murderous thug. That does put Xi in a position to choose sides.

So, who is "normal" and who is an evil murderous dictator who kills women and children? China can sink Russia, while still retaining its own vision and identity

xlinknz

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#2888523 18-Mar-2022 21:19

tdgeek:

Biden has stated that, prior to his call with Xi, that Putin is a murderous thug. That does put Xi in a position to choose sides.

So, who is "normal" and who is an evil murderous dictator who kills women and children? China can sink Russia, while still retaining its own vision and identity

Ex best friend of USA MDS of Saudi Arabia comes to mind, seems the media has forgotten innocents continue to killed in Yemen just like they are in Ukraine by Russia but by western weapons

SaltyNZ

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#2888526 18-Mar-2022 21:35

xlinknz:

Ex best friend of USA MDS of Saudi Arabia comes to mind, seems the media has forgotten innocents continue to killed in Yemen just like they are in Ukraine by Russia but by western weapons

Just another thing I like about driving an EV. I'm not putting money in Mohammad bin Salman's pocket.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Sidestep

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#2888594 19-Mar-2022 06:46

gzt: From article linked by Kingdragonfly above:

Edit: may be misleading. This graph appears to show total world production rather than the exported proportion which is very high for Ukraine.

Yes - Exports are what really matters. Ukraine's the world's fourth-largest exporter of both corn and wheat.
They're the world's largest exporter of sunflower-seed oil, so a decent chunk of the world's vegetable oil supply - especially India's.

Africa and Middle East's where Ukraine mainly sends its wheat and corn exports. Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, and Sudan in particular depend on cheap grain.
Russia and Ukraine together account for more 15 percent of global wheat exports and a similar percentage of the world’s corn market, that's ~10% of traded calories in the world.

This late in the cycle, a fair bit of Ukraine's harvested grain for export has shipped, (<180 ship loads left) so this (last) season's supplies are at minimal risk.
But we're close to the emergence of this season's winter wheat crop, which will certainly be difficult to cultivate & harvest in eastern Ukraine this year.

The loss of seed and fertilizer distribution's another worry, as is the damage to export infrastructure.
There's a network of regional grain terminals across the country, with shipping by rail to the export hub at the southern Ukraine port of Odessa.

Bunge, Cargill, CHS and Archer-Daniels-Midland are among the multinationals with large export operations there, all have temporarily shut them down.
Bunge alone has laid off their more than 1,000 employees and shut down all processing facilities in the country as well as their Odessa grain terminal.

ADM employed roughly 700 people. They've also shut their grain terminal at the Odessa port, as well as six inland grain elevators and trading office in Kyiv.
Cargill, CHS and the many mid-size operators are all the same, closing elevators, and losing distribution centres for seed, fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides.

Fertilizers from the area are of world-wide importance.

Russia's a major producer of nitrogen, phosphorous and potash. It is not clear if the West will completely halt Russia's fertilizer exports, but it's possible.
Belarus is the world's second-largest exporter of potash fertilizer and was already hit by sanctions from Europe and the U.S. in 2021.

My wife was - for many years - an agronomist. We visited the world's largest potash production site (1/3 of the world's total), in northern Saskatachewan last summer.
We were told they're mining flat-out with little room to increase.

And because of the widespread use of diesel in farm equipment, whole-world crop prices are also influenced by swings in energy prices.
The issue can't be undrestimated, unless there's an immediate resolution to this conflict there will be food shortages in many countries that can least afford it.

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#2888673 19-Mar-2022 09:46

So USA can arm and help Ukraine and Taiwan BTW, But China should not arm and help Russia. Theres a words for that, "Two faced Western Hypocrisy". Xi should tell Biden to gtfo for trying to bully china. Considering USA is giving weapons and training to Taiwan right in front of chinas nose. The "warning" by USA to China must piss them right off.

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#2888680 19-Mar-2022 10:06

whataboutism

attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.

tdgeek

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#2888681 19-Mar-2022 10:06

cruxis:

So USA can arm and help Ukraine and Taiwan BTW, But China should not arm and help Russia. Theres a words for that, "Two faced Western Hypocrisy". Xi should tell Biden to gtfo for trying to bully china. Considering USA is giving weapons and training to Taiwan right in front of chinas nose. The "warning" by USA to China must piss them right off.

I dont follow your reasoning.

Is it ok for a David to get help DEFENDING itself from a Goliath? I think so.

Is it ok for another Goliath to assist the ATTACKING Goliath to cause more death and destruction? I dont think so.

SJB

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#2888689 19-Mar-2022 11:17

tdgeek:

cruxis:

So USA can arm and help Ukraine and Taiwan BTW, But China should not arm and help Russia. Theres a words for that, "Two faced Western Hypocrisy". Xi should tell Biden to gtfo for trying to bully china. Considering USA is giving weapons and training to Taiwan right in front of chinas nose. The "warning" by USA to China must piss them right off.

I dont follow your reasoning.

Is it ok for a David to get help DEFENDING itself from a Goliath? I think so.

Is it ok for another Goliath to assist the ATTACKING Goliath to cause more death and destruction? I dont think so.

Plus Russia and China are run by despots, in the case of Russia by an unhinged despot, without whom the world would be a far better place.

tdgeek

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#2888692 19-Mar-2022 11:22

SJB:

Plus Russia and China are run by despots, in the case of Russia by an unhinged despot, without whom the world would be a far better place.

Plus, in the Cold War, extreme as it was, the leaders, of the USA and USSR weren't stupid. So nothing stupid happened. Cuban Crisis was a go, but as no one is stupid no one pushed it.

Putin is a loose cannon in todays "cold war"

ezbee

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#2888694 19-Mar-2022 11:33

Unhinged, yeh seems to be contagious

Sometimes your useful idiots overdo the idiot bit.

Lukashenko who gained control of Belarus under dubious circumstances.
Then imprisoned or banished opposition.
Putin similarly has had some rather odd elections, the 2 term limit thing etc.

What leader of Belarus finds important to argue about ?
Planning to start his own fried chicken franchise ?

Lukashenko: Putin promised me rank of colonel 1min 20 sec long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNtiO7nhmo

kingdragonfly

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#2888702 19-Mar-2022 11:58

Sideface: Watch: Arnold Schwarzenegger's Video Message To Russians, Putin Over War

BBC News: Ukraine: Arnold Schwarzenegger's anti-war video trends on Russian social media

A video address by Hollywood actor Arnold Schwarzenegger to the Russian people was trending on Russian Twitter on Friday and has sparked reaction.

...Writing on the Telegram app, opposition politician Lev Shlosberg said it had been filmed "with respect towards us, Russian people".

...Also on Telegram, liberal journalist Anton Orekh said his message contained no "Russophobia".

...By 13:00 GMT the video had been viewed nearly 25m times and had been retweeted 325,000 times.

Schwarzenegger is one of the few accounts followed by the Kremlin's official Russian- and English-language Twitter accounts.
...

kingdragonfly

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#2888748 19-Mar-2022 17:20

From low-level Russian scammers and black-mailers to highest level of Russian government they've had great success with "there's a sucker borne every minute", so why would they stop?

Deepfake of Zelenskyy Tells Ukrainian Troops to ‘Surrender’

Inside Edition

kingdragonfly

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#2888753 19-Mar-2022 17:44

Putin on new South Park “Back To The Cold War”

SouthParkHD

tdgeek

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#2888826 19-Mar-2022 19:08

Syrian take

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/middleeast/mideast-summary-03-18-2022-intl/index.html

In short, what Syrians suffered from Putin is being repeated in the Ukraine. I dont feel its unreasonable that the West's lack of response then has contributed to the impunity Putin has now. Lets hope the sanctions which are biting and Russian citizen sentiment will help today

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