Christchurch Mosque Shooting

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Forums › Politics › Christchurch Mosque Shooting

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#2203861 23-Mar-2019 16:21

chatterbox:

vulcannz:

NZGamingIcon:

Looking back today, I still have a sick feeling thinking about what occurred last week.

To make matters worse I saw a video of Jim Jefferies (another Australian) drawing a picture of the prophet and making fun of Islam which left me fuming. How on earth does a person like this have a platform on TV?

All religions are the subject of satire, what gives Islam a special exclusion?

Timing for starters.

I agree with the given answer.

More generally I'd be interested to hear what the Muslim community would have to say about the place and role of satire towards religion in NZ, especially going forward. I wonder if certain satire could contribute to feelings of Islamaphobia for some of them.

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#2203862 23-Mar-2019 16:25

The Islam explicitly ban the depiction of sentient beings (in special the Prophet). From there to satire (in special cartoons) is just a step into cultural insensitivity.

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#2203867 23-Mar-2019 16:42

I agree about the timing is awful to discuss Islam and satire is terrible; it actually shows insensitivity.

However asking any large organization how they feel about satire is ridiculous.

Just look at prominent Republican David Nunnes suing Twitter. He's accusing Twitter of being biased against conservatives, yet he names a fellow conservative in his suit as a slanderer.

The Australian government has had a running battle against satirists also, threatening jail time for satirists.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/australian-government-wants-give-satire-boot

An obvious source of satire is the Catholic church, and the constant stream of choir boy jokes.

Some have argued to "MeToo" movement didn't start till the comedian Hannibal Buress joked about Bill Cosby.

Hannibal Buress didn't ask Bill Cosby if it was OK to joke about him raping women.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/hannibal-buress-how-a-comedian-reignited-the-bill-cosby-allegations

Again the timing is awful for a discussion about Islam and satire, but ALL organizations need satire to grow.

From Greek philosopher and a pupil of Socrates Antisthenes: "Listen to your enemies, for they are the first to find out your faults."

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#2203897 23-Mar-2019 18:53

mm1352000: I wonder if certain satire could contribute to feelings of Islamaphobia for some of them.

It would for sure, and some would additionaly just think it is just ignorant and ignore it

Some people doing this stuff are forgetting - most religious satire in history was created by people who are also members or former members of the exact same religion they themselves are satirising (eg; Christianity) and know something about it and picking on a particular aspect or person for failing to live up to it.

The contrary examples where people are making fun of other people's religion that the satirist has no clue about.. well... many of those are pretty horrible.

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#2203913 23-Mar-2019 19:21

Depiction of humans per se is not black and white. There is no shortage in depictions of humans on the website of the official press agency of the Islamic Republic of Iran for instance - http://www.irna.ir/en/ - and I'm sure many other Islamic counties also.

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#2204211 24-Mar-2019 13:01

The Norwegians have been making suggestions about how matters relating to the terrorist should be handled. I agree that the so-called 'manifesto' should not be censored though the video most certainly should be. The video is obscene in the fullest sense of the word. It shows helpless people being callously murdered. The nature of the medium is such that is arouses a strong emotional response. It also glorifies the actions of a miserable loser. There is nothing to be gained from viewing it.

I have not seen the 'manifesto', but reports indicate it is a long, rambling, derivative, incoherent document. It will not have the immediacy or emotional impact of the video. It will be widely available overseas. I honestly believe, as do the Norwegians, that censoring it does more harm than good. It just makes the inchoate garble seem more significant than it really is. Banning it lends it weight and credence that it doesn't deserve. It makes the ravings of a diseased mind seem in some way important. Otherwise why would they have to be suppressed? This is a mistake in my opinion. We are far too quick to censor things here.

Our system of justice is bound by strict formalities. I wish we could be more creative in special cases. I would like to see the terrorist sentenced to a lifetime of solitary confinement, with all prison personnel he comes into contact with being of the Muslim faith. I am not advocating any form of torture. There should be no communications beyond what is necessary and prescribed. There should be no attempts to taunt him or rub anything in his face. But for every meal that is brought to him, every visit to the courtyard, every shower, every interaction, every action that requires him to be dependent on someone else, that someone else should be a Muslim, quietly doing his duty.

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#2204215 24-Mar-2019 13:21

It's still hate speech.

It still goes into great detail of intentions and described what was performed/to be performed on the day.

Or so I am lead to believe. Noone should be given that voice.

Not to mention it's likely fuel to fire for lawyers/the case.

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#2204231 24-Mar-2019 13:38

It's disturbing Turkish president Erdogan taking political advantage of the Christchurch masacre. It makes me wonder about his sanity.

This article from Arab News

Turkish President Erdogan’s ‘vile’ comments on Christchurch mosques shootings dismissed as not representative of Muslims

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1470086/middle-east

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#2204234 24-Mar-2019 13:52

kingdragonfly: It's disturbing Turkish president Erdogan taking political advantage of the Christchurch masacre. It makes me wonder about his sanity.

He is an amoral populist opportunist authoritarian like Trump who will say anything he thinks his supporters will approve of. He has no values beyond remaining in power and increasing his authority.

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chatterbox

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#2204304 24-Mar-2019 15:00

Rikkitic:

The Norwegians have been making suggestions about how matters relating to the terrorist should be handled. I agree that the so-called 'manifesto' should not be censored though the video most certainly should be. The video is obscene in the fullest sense of the word. It shows helpless people being callously murdered. The nature of the medium is such that is arouses a strong emotional response. It also glorifies the actions of a miserable loser. There is nothing to be gained from viewing it.

I have not seen the 'manifesto', but reports indicate it is a long, rambling, derivative, incoherent document. It will not have the immediacy or emotional impact of the video. It will be widely available overseas. I honestly believe, as do the Norwegians, that censoring it does more harm than good. It just makes the inchoate garble seem more significant than it really is. Banning it lends it weight and credence that it doesn't deserve. It makes the ravings of a diseased mind seem in some way important. Otherwise why would they have to be suppressed? This is a mistake in my opinion. We are far too quick to censor things here.

Our system of justice is bound by strict formalities. I wish we could be more creative in special cases. I would like to see the terrorist sentenced to a lifetime of solitary confinement, with all prison personnel he comes into contact with being of the Muslim faith. I am not advocating any form of torture. There should be no communications beyond what is necessary and prescribed. There should be no attempts to taunt him or rub anything in his face. But for every meal that is brought to him, every visit to the courtyard, every shower, every interaction, every action that requires him to be dependent on someone else, that someone else should be a Muslim, quietly doing his duty.

It's our largest shooting and we need to set the standard now.

He listed the Norwegian guy among others as influencers. I don't want this manifesto influencing anyone else. That's great the Norwegian media were able to make him seem smaller but the manifesto and actions have played some part in influencing this gunman that made it to our shores. I don't wish that on any other country nor do I want to be a part of that possibility.

I read it has advice on other places to attack and planning. No. No one needs to see that. It's both stupid and dangerous.

Describes himself as an ordinary guy. An attempt to say to others "I'm one of you". No thanks don't want anyone else recruited. If people are looking for a diseased mind - that is evident already in the actions.

Yes it will be available somewhere else on the web but hey if it stops a lazy supremacist who can't be bothered going to find it then I'm all for that. These are what laws do, they make it harder to be a bad guy.

I feel like I've seen and read enough info out there to form an opinion on the guy. I have no need to understand him. The ideologies aren't new and there are other places you can read about them so doubt one would find this manifesto enlightening in that sense. The people that need access to it are those dealing with the case.

Also disagree with the Norwegian editor that banning the manifesto will elevate him to a martyr position. That may occur based on events previously gone but it won't occur based on banning a manifesto.

Tracer

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#2204313 24-Mar-2019 15:13

Rikkitic:

Our system of justice is bound by strict formalities. I wish we could be more creative in special cases. I would like to see the terrorist sentenced to a lifetime of solitary confinement, with all prison personnel he comes into contact with being of the Muslim faith.

The Crimes Act specifically prohibits a sentence of solitary confinement (with an exception for prison rules punishments). Maybe it's worth a law change in this case!

Ge0rge

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#2204316 24-Mar-2019 15:17

Tracer:
Rikkitic:

Our system of justice is bound by strict formalities. I wish we could be more creative in special cases. I would like to see the terrorist sentenced to a lifetime of solitary confinement, with all prison personnel he comes into contact with being of the Muslim faith.

The Crimes Act specifically prohibits a sentence of solitary confinement (with an exception for prison rules punishments). Maybe it's worth a law change in this case!

Interesting - didn't the deputy PM state that was what was going to happen - solitary for life?

Rikkitic

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#2204317 24-Mar-2019 15:19

chatterbox:

It's our largest shooting and we need to set the standard now.

These are all good points and I can't really say I disagree with them. I suppose an irony is that you have to read the damned thing to really know if any these arguments apply. Maybe it is just as well that the censor has done that for us. I don't know. I have a deep dislike and distrust of censorship but of course this is a special circumstance.

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mm1352000

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#2204318 24-Mar-2019 15:23

Ge0rge: Interesting - didn't the deputy PM state that was what was going to happen - solitary for life?

Yes, I can confirm I saw video of him saying that while overseas somewhere. I forget where.

Rikkitic

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#2204319 24-Mar-2019 15:26

Tracer:

Rikkitic:

Our system of justice is bound by strict formalities. I wish we could be more creative in special cases. I would like to see the terrorist sentenced to a lifetime of solitary confinement, with all prison personnel he comes into contact with being of the Muslim faith.

The Crimes Act specifically prohibits a sentence of solitary confinement (with an exception for prison rules punishments). Maybe it's worth a law change in this case!

It might depend on how 'solitary' is defined. Maybe they can chain him to a chair and let him sit through Muslim prayers every day.

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