Ukraine War discussion

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Ultimate Geek
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#2874206 24-Feb-2022 17:58

MikeB4:

PolicyGuy:

Ban the sale of Airbus & Boeing airliner spare parts, rotables & technical consumables.
Would reduce Russian domestic & international air transport to almost nothing in a month or so

Trap a bear and it will break out and lash out and no one can afford that. Sanctions never affect the leaders they only affect those than can do nothing to change anything

Well the question is - can the Russian people do anything about it. Actually, let me rephrase that. Sanctions can affect the oligarchs, and they can definitely do something about it. The West is happy to keep dealing with the oligarchs, but it's unhappy with the war. Sanction the heck out of Putin's buddies, and watch how quickly he dies of a heart attack.

Hello, Ground!

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2874210 24-Feb-2022 18:01

This is also interesting. A CNN reporter noted this.

When Putin went 'Live' on Russian TV this morning, he was wearing the same suit, the same tie, and sitting at the same desk\position he was when he made his address on Monday.

Possible that the 'Live' broadcast this morning was recorded on Monday, and all of this is planned.

tdgeek

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#2874212 24-Feb-2022 18:04

Dingbatt:

I feel really sorry for the ordinary citizens who probably just want to get on with their lives.

Now that Russian forces have moved on western provinces it will be be those citizens that suffer most rather than the politicians giving orders.

But I do have to wonder at headlines like the one in the NZHerald “Russia declares war on Ukraine”. I read the whole article and couldn’t see where any such declaration was made. Yes, they have attacked, but a declaration of war is a very specific thing.

Putin has no intention of taking Ukraine. Its just a special military operation. (On a sovereign state) Barrages of cruise missiles, and the attacks are nationwide.

Seems quite specific to me. Would Putin sign a document stating a declaration of war? No, its just a special military operation using cruise missiles nationwide.... Perhaps backing off will give him special treatment as PRNK got? The West moves in, China moves in. Probably end up with Russia being given concessions. If I beat someone up at school, it would be me that got a detention (not that I did)

Its a more modern world than early 1900's, this cannot be allowed. If its sanctions they need to totally cut off Russia. Yes, Ukraine's oil and gas is an issue

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2874213 24-Feb-2022 18:07

Air raid sirens live now in Kyiv

Dingbatt

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#2874214 24-Feb-2022 18:08

Dingbatt:

I feel really sorry for the ordinary citizens who probably just want to get on with their lives.

Now that Russian forces have moved on western provinces it will be be those citizens that suffer most rather than the politicians giving orders.

Doh! Eastern provinces.

Edit: However I have just watched the Ukrainian Ambassador to the UN accusing Putin of declaring war on them so maybe that’s where NZH got it from.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

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#2874215 24-Feb-2022 18:08

Kookoo:

Well the question is - can the Russian people do anything about it. Actually, let me rephrase that. Sanctions can affect the oligarchs, and they can definitely do something about it. The West is happy to keep dealing with the oligarchs, but it's unhappy with the war. Sanction the heck out of Putin's buddies, and watch how quickly he dies of a heart attack.

I read the other day that Russia's economy is smaller than Italy's. Heard today on CNN that Putin is losing popularity. Its like one person playing chess with millions of pawns, a power game. Cannot be allowed to happen

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#2874217 24-Feb-2022 18:10

Dingbatt:

Doh! Eastern provinces.

All good. Provinces of another nation, just like Waikato

networkn

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#2874218 24-Feb-2022 18:10

gzt: Explosions in Kiev during security council meeting. I hope some way can be found to stop this action and resume negotiations. This is very sad. It has potential to change the world in many ways that we cannot imagine at this time.

There was never any intention to be able to avoid this from Russia's perspective. They know what they want, they won't be stopped. Everything up until this afternoon was pretense and theatre to allow them to prepare for this action this afternoon.

I don't expect any other nation to defend Ukraine with Military force. Sanctions perhaps, but Putin holds the trump cards oil and gas.

We can really only watch on and hope the loss of innocent life is minimal and the horrors are over as quickly as they can be.

Both Putin and Biden are using some pretty strong language, but I seriously doubt the US is going to do more than sanction them and the losses in that regard will more than be covered by gaining Ukraine for Putin.

MikeB4

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#2874219 24-Feb-2022 18:13

Russia isn't really doing much different to what the US, UK etc have done over recent decades. This is a further example of the stupidity of world leaders.

The Ukraine president has declared Marshall law, I don't recall Great Britain, US, Australia, Aotearoa declaring Marshall law in WW1, WW2. I don't believe that the Ukraine regime is what they market themselves as.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dingbatt

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#2874220 24-Feb-2022 18:19

MikeB4:

The Ukraine president has declared Marshall law, I don't recall Great Britain, US, Australia, Aotearoa declaring Marshall law in WW1, WW2. I don't believe that the Ukraine regime is what they market themselves as.

None of the countries you mention were invaded.

Unless you are really really old, I’m not surprised you don’t recall things from WW1.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

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#2874223 24-Feb-2022 18:25

The airport in Kyiv (I think) has been levelled. No ground forces, but a late crossing to Matthew Chance shows ground attacks on Ukraine border guards from Russians and Belarussians.

Edit: Ground troops and vehicles enter from Belarus

Its a war

Geektastic

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#2874224 24-Feb-2022 18:29

Is anyone surprised?

Putin is a wolf in a world largely composed of sheep. He's going to take what he wants and the West will bleat and wring their hands but probably do nothing.

MikeB4

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#2874225 24-Feb-2022 18:30

You miss my point. Declaring Marshall law hand effectively to the generals. It means civil authority no longer have the ability to act meaning any change in direction is in the hands of the president and the military. It shows like most of the ex Soviet states government is not what we experience in the so called west

When Great Britain was attacked and territories invaded throughout it's empire and close to home did not declare Marshall law. The democratic and parliamentary system continued and to a degree strengthened.

We here in Aotearoa need to be very aware that what we see and hear is very slanted.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2874226 24-Feb-2022 18:31

tdgeek:

The airport in Kyiv (I think) has been levelled. No ground forces, but a late crossing to Matthew Chance shows ground attacks on Ukraine border guards from Russians and Belarussians.

Edit: Ground troops and vehicles enter from Belarus

Its a war

Airport has been hit hard. Photo of the airport(?) and Tanks rolling in from Belarus

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html

tdgeek

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#2874228 24-Feb-2022 18:36

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Airport has been hit hard. Photo of the airport(?) and Tanks rolling in from Belarus

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html

Yep, just seen that. If this is allowed, its an invitation to take other countries in order to shore up resources and economies. If sanctions are the tool then attacks are allowed. If not encouraged

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