Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#2970834 21-Sep-2022 10:28

Rikkitic:

There is plenty to criticise this government on, but the outraged (and sometimes superior) tone that usually accompanies this from the right is not helpful. Also not helpful is dishing up examples of government failings as a response whenever anyone criticises the right. Accordingly, most discussions here get reduced to toddler arguments along the lines of 'he hit me first'.

Perhaps you could lead by example then? You are certainly not above any of that behaviour. If we have a change of Government at the next election, I look forward to your reasoned and understanding approach to their policies and execution.

I genuinely believe there are many things that are really obviously stupid in the way the Government has executed many of it's policies. I don't feel compelled to give them any leeway after seeing them make the same or similar mistakes in year 5 as they were in their first few months.

I mean, even you said you've given up on them.. Where do you think that leaves anyone who wasn't as big of a fan in the first place?

Rikkitic

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#2970901 21-Sep-2022 11:16

networkn:

Perhaps you could lead by example then? You are certainly not above any of that behaviour. If we have a change of Government at the next election, I look forward to your reasoned and understanding approach to their policies and execution.

Another toddler response. If we have a change of government next time, I will regret it but I won't reject it. I believe in democracy as long as it is a fair and honest process and politicians live up to their responsibility. As a sweeping generality, I don't care for right-wing politics and I especially don't like National because I believe they put money ahead of all else. True to form, Luxon has already started bashing beneficiaries. I also don't trust those with a religious agenda. I am very disappointed that this once-in-a-lifetime Labour government has not lived up to its promise, but I still don't see anything else out there that is better so I will probably hold my nose and vote progressive again next time.

I don't like National but I don't think it is the end of the world either. The Key governments did a lot of things I didn't like, but they also did a few things I did like. Most governments seem to be like that. Fortunately, we live in a country where the two sides are not so far apart that elections descend into civil war. Even before it happens, if it does, I already know I won't like a National government but I can live with it until the next progressive one comes along to hopefully do things better.

networkn:

I mean, even you said you've given up on them.. Where do you think that leaves anyone who wasn't as big of a fan in the first place?

I feel your pain.

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networkn

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#2970905 21-Sep-2022 11:34

Rikkitic:

Perhaps you could lead by example then? You are certainly not above any of that behaviour. If we have a change of Government at the next election, I look forward to your reasoned and understanding approach to their policies and execution.

Another toddler response. If we have a change of government next time, I will regret it but I won't reject it. I believe in democracy as long as it is a fair and honest process and politicians live up to their responsibility. As a sweeping generality, I don't care for right-wing politics and I especially don't like National because I believe they put money ahead of all else. True to form, Luxon has already started bashing beneficiaries. I also don't trust those with a religious agenda. I am very disappointed that this once-in-a-lifetime Labour government has not lived up to its promise, but I still don't see anything else out there that is better so I will probably hold my nose and vote progressive again next time.

I don't like National but I don't think it is the end of the world either. The Key governments did a lot of things I didn't like, but they also did a few things I did like. Most governments seem to be like that. Fortunately, we live in a country where the two sides are not so far apart that elections descend into civil war. Even before it happens, if it does, I already know I won't like a National government but I can live with it until the next progressive one comes along to hopefully do things better.

I don't recall you having the same attitude during the last National government and before they have even been elected you have decided (if it happens, which I don't consider a certainty) you won't like them, something I recall you giving me a hard time for after the 2017 election. The tired old cliches that money trumps people, is similar in both parties. Labour had chances to do things differently and ultimately decided against it because it would make them unpopular. I thought the 'reactionary right' one in a totally unrelated thread was brilliant, considering Labour have been the very definition of reactionary their entire term(s).

You can insult me (again) with your comments on my 'response' but it's totally true. You are happy to complain about things, but then do exactly the same things.

Rikkitic

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#2970915 21-Sep-2022 12:07

networkn:

You can insult me (again) with your comments on my 'response' but it's totally true. You are happy to complain about things, but then do exactly the same things.

I don't want to insult you again. Let us move on.

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sen8or

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#2974938 29-Sep-2022 16:27

If one MP had said "leave your Maori world", would they still have a job?

Davis won't be suspended from Labour after Māori ACT MP comment, PM says deputy was 'too personal' (msn.com)

Racism is okay, so long as it goes the other way it seems

GV27

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#2975112 30-Sep-2022 06:43

'Too personal' is exceptionally tip toeing around what the actual issue is here, isn't it? Even if Chhour wasn't Maori, they'd still be a ridiculous entho-racial response to a perfectly normal question in the house.

The reality is Davis and certain other non-performers in caucus are untouchable and PM Ardern saying it was "Too personal" is not the same as saying "It was a stupid thing to say".

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#2976960 3-Oct-2022 22:09

I see Andrew Little is claiming 400 nurses have applied for visas, making it sound there is 400 extra nurses on the way, when in fact this isn't the case.

https://www.national.org.nz/only_77_nurses_in_three_months

Only 77 of these visa applications are from nurses living overseas and only 3 have arrived since July. All the rest are already working here and are just changing the type of visa they are on. Less nurses are applying to come here now than when the borders were closed.

More spin spin spin. I guess that's to be expected since that's what the PM did her political apprenticeship doing.

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ockel

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#2978638 7-Oct-2022 14:21

A not-very-widely publicised poll from Oct 4:

Today’s Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll shows a potential National/Act NZ coalition has increased its lead over the governing Labour/Greens coalition in September to the largest margin for four months since May 2022.

The gap between the two sides of politics has increased by 4.5% points in September with a potential National/Act NZ coalition up 2.5% points to 48.5% and they are now 6.5% points ahead of the governing Labour/Greens coalition on 42%, down 2% points.

www.roymorgan.com/findings/the-potential-national-act-nz-48-5-coalition-has-stretched-its-lead-over-labour-greens-42-to-the-largest-since-may-2022

Even attending the Queens funeral and the UN talkfest didnt help.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

GV27

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#2979870 10-Oct-2022 06:47

Lots of talk about local Govt results showing a 'swing to the right' somehow when in reality it's just an ever-dwindling number of voters giving more power to the voting blocs that turn out in solid numbers without fail.

For my mind the most interesting thing was Wellington rolling over a new mayor again, and a more left-wing aligned one at that. I genuinely get the feeling there is starting to be a wide political disconnect between the capital and the rest of the urban centres in the country. I'm more interested in the PM's thoughts about that.

alasta

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#2979908 10-Oct-2022 08:54

I think Wellington is quite polarised between a large population of fanatical hard left voters, versus all the pragmatists. In this particular election there was an articulate and charismatic left wing candidate, and those who didn't support her had their votes split between Andy, Paul and Ray. If there had been one strong centrist candidate up against Tory then they would have had a good chance of winning.

sir1963

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#2980073 10-Oct-2022 12:33

Technofreak:

I see Andrew Little is claiming 400 nurses have applied for visas, making it sound there is 400 extra nurses on the way, when in fact this isn't the case.

https://www.national.org.nz/only_77_nurses_in_three_months

Only 77 of these visa applications are from nurses living overseas and only 3 have arrived since July. All the rest are already working here and are just changing the type of visa they are on. Less nurses are applying to come here now than when the borders were closed.

More spin spin spin. I guess that's to be expected since that's what the PM did her political apprenticeship doing.

Kiwi-Build Nurses.

We have had Kiwi-build

Kiwi-build mental Health

Kiwi-build "there is no health crisis"

kiwi-build Tertiary education (universities are grossly underfunded and the Polytech Debacle is making the Titanic look like a success story)

and threats of Kiwi-build three waters.

elpenguino

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#2980488 11-Oct-2022 10:06

alasta:

I think Wellington is quite polarised between a large population of fanatical hard left voters, versus all the pragmatists. In this particular election there was an articulate and charismatic left wing candidate, and those who didn't support her had their votes split between Andy, Paul and Ray. If there had been one strong centrist candidate up against Tory then they would have had a good chance of winning.

You might not know that Wellington has STV for local body elections.

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Technofreak

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#2980773 11-Oct-2022 22:15

The emissions scheme announced today.

The Prime Minister made a deal about this scheme being a world first.

i'm not sure that is something to be crowing about when in the big scheme of things New Zealands emissions are a pimple on the backside of world emissions.

Our "world leading" stance will have a significant affect on our economy, reduce the international competitiveness of our agricultural products and reduce the standard of living for a good many New Zealanders. All for what real benefit in the big scheme of things?

We have a lot of things that need putting right in this country and a strong vibrant economy is what we need to the be able to afford to fix things instead of just fiddling around the edges. Things like education and health in particular but also productivity which is an outcome of educatuion and health. If we fix these then we fix other issues by default and the population and the country is better off all round, including our emissions.

To give examples of the sort I thing I'm thinking of, we import cheap Japanese second hand cars many of them dirty diesels. A more affluent population would be buying new lower emission vehicles thus reducing our emissions. People could afford better housing that doesn't require as much heating therefore use less energy.

I'm all for looking after our planet but why do we need to lead? We might think we're important but in reality we are such a small player the rest of the world won't notice any effect no matter what we do. Let's sort our bigger issues out first.

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Rikkitic

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#2980789 11-Oct-2022 22:40

Technofreak:

I'm all for looking after our planet but why do we need to lead? We might think we're important but in reality we are such a small player the rest of the world won't notice any effect no matter what we do. Let's sort our bigger issues out first.

Someone has to go first. Why is it such a big problem if we try to set an example? That is something to be admired. Who cares if we are too insignificant to make a difference? At least we are trying to do the right thing. I think your argument against this is a phoney one. It is the same one hauled out every time someone wants an excuse to do nothing.

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elpenguino

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#2980796 11-Oct-2022 23:19

Technofreak:

I'm all for looking after our planet but why do we need to lead?

Lol, as in, I'd do anything to lose weight except diet or exercise?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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