New centrist green party?

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#2174002 6-Feb-2019 15:16

Fred99:

It's your lifestyle choice to live 38km from your place of work, with no public transport servicing the route.

Show me how someone or some higher authority is "holding a gun to your head" forcing you to live your life in such an unpleasant and environmentally irresponsible way.

Of course, I forgot, this is 1998, where everyone can afford to buy a house near where they work, or just get a job close to where they live! People should all just walk to work! Or better yet, forklift drivers can just telecommute instead!

It's. So. Simple.

shk292

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#2174117 6-Feb-2019 19:21

GV27:
Fred99:

It's your lifestyle choice to live 38km from your place of work, with no public transport servicing the route.

Show me how someone or some higher authority is "holding a gun to your head" forcing you to live your life in such an unpleasant and environmentally irresponsible way.

Of course, I forgot, this is 1998, where everyone can afford to buy a house near where they work, or just get a job close to where they live! People should all just walk to work! Or better yet, forklift drivers can just telecommute instead!

It's. So. Simple.

yep, I'll just borrow another couple of mill then I can buy a house like mine but in Devonport. but then I'll have to fight the traffic congestion to get off the peninsula at the weekend
I'm sure the smug self righteous greens would love us to all live in shoebox apartments next to the bus stop but that's not why I moved to NZ
but Fred, just keep making your made up assertions and telling us all how to live our lives. Maybe you could run for Parliament as a Green MP?

Fred99

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#2174147 6-Feb-2019 20:26

shk292:
yep, I'll just borrow another couple of mill then I can buy a house like mine but in Devonport. but then I'll have to fight the traffic congestion to get off the peninsula at the weekend
I'm sure the smug self righteous greens would love us to all live in shoebox apartments next to the bus stop but that's not why I moved to NZ
but Fred, just keep making your made up assertions and telling us all how to live our lives. Maybe you could run for Parliament as a Green MP?

So you want the big house, to live close to a major city centre but can't afford it, and that excuses driving ridiculous commuter distances worthy of bleating about, while adding a few tonnes of CO2 emissions.

I'm not telling you how to live your life - just amused at how you've been "free marketed" out of a decent lifestyle, and that criticism of the waste you choose to generate is the fault of "the greens". LOL.

shk292

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#2174153 6-Feb-2019 20:45

Fred99:

So you want the big house, to live close to a major city centre but can't afford it, and that excuses driving ridiculous commuter distances worthy of bleating about, while adding a few tonnes of CO2 emissions.

I'm not telling you how to live your life - just amused at how you've been "free marketed" out of a decent lifestyle, and that criticism of the waste you choose to generate is the fault of "the greens". LOL.

Wrong on so many counts. I live near a big city. I live in a big house close to the beach and within a short drive of the marina where I keep my yacht. I can afford it all. I don't want to live in Devonport but that's where I choose (you'll hate that word I know) to work, and earn a good salary. I don't mind my 38km commute; I drive a nice car and I listen to the radio current affairs programme (RNZ) or my choice of music. I get home by 5pm and if I want to, I can get changed and be on the beach for a swim 5 minutes later - I often do this in the summer.

And - a bonus - I generate some CO2 that the plants can use to grow!

If there was decent public transport that took within 50% of my current travel time, I might take it so I could read/watch TV/work en route. But currently, that's not an option. I don't just choose to travel by car because of laziness or selfishness, but to maintain my lifestyle and that of my family, that's what I do.

Now, if you have any basis for the statement you made that people just choose to drive, here's your chance to provide it. Or you can just man up and say you're wrong.

LOL

Fred99

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#2174172 6-Feb-2019 22:55

shk292:

And - a bonus - I generate some CO2 that the plants can use to grow!

ROFL. What a self-proclaimed (but ignorant of science) hero.

Everything you state confirms that you have the ability to not commute long distances - and you're asking me to "prove" that your choice to live a lifestyle that requires it isn't a "lifestyle choice"???

Fred99

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#2174176 6-Feb-2019 23:36

GV27:

Fred99:

It's your lifestyle choice to live 38km from your place of work, with no public transport servicing the route.

Show me how someone or some higher authority is "holding a gun to your head" forcing you to live your life in such an unpleasant and environmentally irresponsible way.

Of course, I forgot, this is 1998, where everyone can afford to buy a house near where they work, or just get a job close to where they live! People should all just walk to work! Or better yet, forklift drivers can just telecommute instead!

It's. So. Simple.

So if it's not your fault, then who's to blame? Government? And what should they do - build you better roads so you can drive cars further and more conveniently, and to hell with sustainability?

I think I said earlier in this thread that most people (climate change denialists and other conspiracy theorists excluded) would like to see something done to address environmental issues, just so long as it doesn't inconvenience themselves.

So nothing much (or certainly not enough) happens. And of course, The Greens are "watermelons" /s.

shk292

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#2174232 7-Feb-2019 06:47

Fred99:

ROFL. What a self-proclaimed (but ignorant of science) hero.

Everything you state confirms that you have the ability to not commute long distances - and you're asking me to "prove" that your choice to live a lifestyle that requires it isn't a "lifestyle choice"???

Happy with the science, thanks - that bit about CO2 was a little bit of a silly throw-away

I think I'll leave it at that. You said that people drive just through choice, which implied to me that acceptable alternatives were available - and in my experience they aren't

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GV27

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#2174234 7-Feb-2019 06:55

I didn't think Fred would pro-abolishing things like WFFTC but here we are. I mean, if you can't afford kids, don't have them, right?

Fred99

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#2174256 7-Feb-2019 08:17

shk292:

You said that people drive just through choice, which implied to me that acceptable alternatives were available - and in my experience they aren't

I said that people drive through choice, which you've rejected because it's - to paraphrase - "too inconvenient", thus unacceptable. And it's really triggered you.

That's the brick wall policy-makers face. It's probably why the human race is doomed.

Fred99

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#2174257 7-Feb-2019 08:18

GV27:

I didn't think Fred would pro-abolishing things like WFFTC but here we are. I mean, if you can't afford kids, don't have them, right?

That's way off topic and "projecting" a strawman argument.

shk292

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#2174261 7-Feb-2019 08:46

Fred99:

I said that people drive through choice, which you've rejected because it's - to paraphrase - "too inconvenient", thus unacceptable. And it's really triggered you.

That's the brick wall policy-makers face. It's probably why the human race is doomed.

It comes down to differing definitions of "inconvenient". For me, effects such as taking a significant pay drop, living in an apartment/small house in the inner city, putting my kids in a worse school or forcing my partner to change career/employer go further than inconvenient. I know that for the Greens, this isn't the case - and they'd probably go further into enforced vegetarianism and severely restricted private transport if they thought they could. I guess we all sit on that freedom<=>conformity spectrum somewhere, and we get to vote on where we want the country to be also.

Does that mean the human race is doomed? I doubt it but it'll be too far in the future for you or I to know. I think humans will adapt and overcome, although I have a feeling there may be too many humans for the planet to support sometime in the foreseeable future.

Rikkitic

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#2174263 7-Feb-2019 08:52

Fred99:

shk292:

You said that people drive just through choice, which implied to me that acceptable alternatives were available - and in my experience they aren't

I said that people drive through choice, which you've rejected because it's - to paraphrase - "too inconvenient", thus unacceptable. And it's really triggered you.

That's the brick wall policy-makers face. It's probably why the human race is doomed.

Putting aside the specific case being argued over, this seems unfortunately to be true as a general principle. No-one wants to give anything up for a future benefit, even if that benefit may be the survival of our way of life or even our very existence. Just look at all the bitching and moaning over the abolishing of plastic bags.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2174269 7-Feb-2019 09:08

Fred99:

GV27:

I didn't think Fred would pro-abolishing things like WFFTC but here we are. I mean, if you can't afford kids, don't have them, right?

That's way off topic and "projecting" a strawman argument.

Either 'personal responsibility' is a philosophy you apply to everything or just things you personally value, like the environment, where everyone simply must just adjust to your terms. Pick one.

Ergo, the Green conundrum. The well-off who can afford to lecture everyone else acting like everyone can simply change their lifestyle to do what they think they should do, without having to acknowledge the level of privilege required to do so.

Sometimes I wonder if a large part of the Green movement is just a way for well-off people to chain themselves to a cause so they can be righteous about something.

Rikkitic

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#2174272 7-Feb-2019 09:21

Sometimes I wonder if smug dismissive comments about the Green movement is just a way for self-satisfied conservatives to feel superior and self-righteous for doing nothing.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#2174275 7-Feb-2019 09:26

Rikkitic:

Sometimes I wonder if smug dismissive comments about the Green movement is just a way for self-satisfied conservatives to feel superior and self-righteous for doing nothing.

On a more serious note, I do wonder why critics of the Greens zero in on their excesses and inconsistencies but ignore their legitimate concerns. There seems to be an element of defensiveness about this.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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