Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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#2257167 13-Jun-2019 09:04

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The Washington Post - Former White House aide Hicks agrees to testify to House panel investigating Trump

June 12 at 4:40 PM

BREAKING: Hope Hicks, a top aide to President Trump during his 2016 campaign and his first year in the White House, has agreed to testify before the House Judiciary Committee next Wednesday ...

Hicks will be the first former Trump aide to go before the committee investigating whether Trump tried to obstruct a probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election. ...

Earlier this month, the White House instructed Hicks not to cooperate with a congressional subpoena for documents related to her White House service. ...

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Paul1977

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#2257168 13-Jun-2019 09:05

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The Washington Post - House panel votes to hold attorney general, commerce secretary in contempt over census probe, the next step toward a court battle

June 12 at 4:40 PM

BREAKING: The House Oversight Committee has been seeking information about the Trump administration’s efforts to add a citizenship question to the census.

If the resolution is approved by the full House, as expected, Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) would be empowered to ask a federal court to order Attorney General William P. Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross to comply with subpoenas that sought documents related to the 2020 Census and testimony from a senior Justice Department official.

This story will be updated.

The story is behind a paywall so I can't read it, but...

Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

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#2257171 13-Jun-2019 09:09

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Paul1977:

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The Washington Post - House panel votes to hold attorney general, commerce secretary in contempt over census probe, the next step toward a court battle

June 12 at 4:40 PM

Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

The point is that most immigrant "illegals" will not fill out the census for fear of deportation, which will bias the census results.

Republicans want this question included - Democrats do not.

Immigrants tend to vote Democrat.

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sir1963

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#2257173 13-Jun-2019 09:13

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Paul1977:

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The Washington Post - House panel votes to hold attorney general, commerce secretary in contempt over census probe, the next step toward a court battle

June 12 at 4:40 PM

BREAKING: The House Oversight Committee has been seeking information about the Trump administration’s efforts to add a citizenship question to the census.

If the resolution is approved by the full House, as expected, Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) would be empowered to ask a federal court to order Attorney General William P. Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross to comply with subpoenas that sought documents related to the 2020 Census and testimony from a senior Justice Department official.

This story will be updated.

The story is behind a paywall so I can't read it, but...

Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

Maybe, but in this case it is being used to gerrymander voting boundaries .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGLRJ12uqmk

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2019/0531/Citizenship-question-on-census-came-from-gerrymandering-guru

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#2257174 13-Jun-2019 09:17

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Paul1977:

Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

It depends what you think the census is for. In New Zealand we think the census is for gathering information about how many people and their approximate financial circumstances there are in any given area so that our government can plan ahead to deliver important services to them. And even with in mind, there's a whole thread here on GZ somewhere with a bunch of people being super-offended that they have to volunteer even that information.

The citizenship question might seem neutral at first glance, but if you are a non-citizen with potentially dubious residency status, then answering it (or declining to answer it) gives the government a way to target you for special attention. The people who are most likely to be afraid of answering that question are also the ones with the least resources at their disposal to defend themselves. People like undocumented Mexicans, who, as we know, are favourites of the Trump administration and supporters.

So in practice such a question is a tool that can be used to easily locate 'undesirables' and get rid of them. Like any tool, it's how you use it that matters, but this is more like a gun: little if any legitimate purpose, but plenty of potential for harm.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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#2257175 13-Jun-2019 09:17

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Paul1977:

Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

It depends what you think the census is for. In New Zealand we think the census is for gathering information about how many people and their approximate financial circumstances there are in any given area so that our government can plan ahead to deliver important services to them. And even with that in mind, there's a whole thread here on GZ somewhere with a bunch of people being super-offended that they have to volunteer even that information.

The citizenship question might seem neutral at first glance, but if you are a non-citizen with potentially dubious residency status, then answering it (or declining to answer it) gives the government a way to target you for special attention. The people who are most likely to be afraid of answering that question are also the ones with the least resources at their disposal to defend themselves. People like undocumented Mexicans, who, as we know, are favourites of the Trump administration and supporters.

So in practice such a question is a tool that can be used to easily locate 'undesirables' and get rid of them. Like any tool, it's how you use it that matters, but this is more like a gun: little if any legitimate purpose, but plenty of potential for harm.

EDIT: argh, accidentally a word

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Rikkitic

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#2257224 13-Jun-2019 09:34

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SaltyNZ:

there's a whole thread here on GZ somewhere with a bunch of people being super-offended that they have to volunteer even that information.

Just to set the record straight, I am happy to volunteer any information requested of me. My sole objection is to the fact that the information is not anonymised after collection and is stored in that state forever. Yes, it is anonymised before release to researchers, but in principle someone somewhere can always trace it back to the source. That is what I object to, especially in view of the history of official bodies when it comes to keeping information secure.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

sir1963

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#2257234 13-Jun-2019 09:46

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Rikkitic:

SaltyNZ:

there's a whole thread here on GZ somewhere with a bunch of people being super-offended that they have to volunteer even that information.

Just to set the record straight, I am happy to volunteer any information requested of me. My sole objection is to the fact that the information is not anonymised after collection and is stored in that state forever. Yes, it is anonymised before release to researchers, but in principle someone somewhere can always trace it back to the source. That is what I object to, especially in view of the history of official bodies when it comes to keeping information secure.

Facebook and Google know far more about you than the government does, and they actively sell that information.

And then you look at the total incompetence exhibited by private companies with peoples information, password to files being "Password", username/passwords stored in plain text, etc etc etc

We can vote our government out, try getting rid of Zuckerburg, you can't, he has the controlling votes.

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#2257236 13-Jun-2019 09:48

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Regardless of the motivation behind it, isn't citizenship information a very relevant thing that should be on a census?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/07/how-dead-mans-hard-drives-are-exposing-gop-attack-democracy/

How a dead man’s hard drives are exposing the GOP attack on democracy

Washington Post

By Paul Waldman

Dead men tell no tales, but their hard drives do. That’s what happened to the late Republican operative Thomas Hofeller, a key figure in Republicans’ project to rig elections in their favor, after his estranged daughter discovered his cache of electronic documents and turned them over to Common Cause.

First we learned that Hofeller had been working with the Trump administration in its effort to add a citizenship question to the census in order to give a political advantage to Republicans and white people — an effort about which they have told repeated falsehoods to the public and even under oath. And now we learn that wasn’t the only piece of Hofeller’s work Republicans were likely lying about:

In 2017, after the Supreme Court affirmed that North Carolina’s GOP-drawn districts were illegally built around race, the state’s Republican leaders told a federal court they couldn’t quickly craft new boundaries in time for a special election later that year. They hadn’t yet started “the laborious process” of creating maps, they said, and still needed to talk to voters.

The court bought the argument, giving the state GOP nearly another year with a supermajority — an advantage it used to appoint judges and push constitutional amendments.

But a trove of once-secret documents from a strategist behind Republican gerrymandering efforts proves that argument was false, a watchdog group claimed in a Thursday court filing. In fact, that strategist, Thomas Hofeller, had already drawn up numerous maps and completed 97 percent of a plan for proposed state Senate districts and 90 percent of a House plan.

The background is that the Republican Party in North Carolina has for the past few years been engaged in some of the most blatant and systematic attacks on democracy to be found anywhere in the country. The gerrymander in question was so obviously intended to take power from African American voters that even the Republican-dominated Supreme Court upheld a lower-court ruling that it had to be thrown out.

A voter ID law the GOP-controlled legislature passed was also ruled unconstitutional, with a panel of federal judges writing that its provisions “target African Americans with almost surgical precision.” After a Democrat was elected governor in 2016, Republicans rushed through a bill curbing his power in a lame-duck session.

If there’s a ground zero for the GOP war on democratic representation, North Carolina is it. And every time, Republicans came up with a bogus justification for their actions that they somehow managed to repeat with a straight face.

In this case, it isn’t just whether they could complete new maps that they seem to have lied about. Common Cause alleges that while the state’s Republicans told the court they were not using data on race in order to draw the new maps, in fact, Hofeller was drawing new maps for them with race data that would enable them to once again cut African Americans out of power.

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#2257259 13-Jun-2019 10:06

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sir1963:

... Maybe, but in this case it is being used to gerrymander voting boundaries .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGLRJ12uqmk

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2019/0531/Citizenship-question-on-census-came-from-gerrymandering-guru

Republican politicians are very, very good at gerrymandering.

Without it, GeorgeW would never have come to power - his first election victory, by the narrowest of margins.

(I can remember the Good Old Days when I imagined that GeorgeW was the worst / most incompetent possible choice for president - but Donald has since proved me wrong.) 😕

(I also imagined that Americans were not stupid enough to elect GeorgeW twice - but I was again proved wrong.) 😕

Gerrymandering also contributed to Trump's surprise 2016 victory (even Donald was surprised!).

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#2257299 13-Jun-2019 11:29

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#2257323 13-Jun-2019 11:51

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A Donald Trump national holiday

"If President Obama made the deals that I have made, both at the Border and for the Economy, the Corrupt Media would be hailing them as Incredible, & a National Holiday would be immediately declared."

Trump tweet 1:26 AM - Jun 10, 2019

(click to view)

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kingdragonfly

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#2257338 13-Jun-2019 12:09

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#2257353 13-Jun-2019 12:29

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Declaring a legal holiday ...

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#2257376 13-Jun-2019 12:48

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In which Trump openly invites foreign nations to interfere, without impunity, in the 2020 election.

EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump tells @GStephanopoulos he wouldn't necessarily alert the FBI if approached by foreign figures with information on his 2020 opponent: "It’s not an interference. They have information. I think I’d take it." https://t.co/yWRxMOaFqW pic.twitter.com/qwLw53s5yc

— ABC News (@ABC) June 12, 2019

It will be interesting to see where Republicans land on this. Will they condemn him, or have they completely given up any semblance of pretending they're interested in democratic elections?

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