Christchurch Mosque Shooting

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Forums › Politics › Christchurch Mosque Shooting

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2199100 15-Mar-2019 20:18

networkn:

It's sad to see us take just pages to be bickering at each other when what we need is care, compassion and *tolerance* right now.

There will be plenty of time to disect things, critisize, and share theories.

I feel right now the focus should be the members of our community who are affected and ensuring they have whatever they need to get through this as best they can.

You are almost entirely right there. Except the part about *tolerance*. The time for *tolerance* is gone. I will link again to the image posted just before your reply:

Do you get it now? Tolerating intolerance is paradoxical because it leads to the death of tolerance. Here's an explanation.

timmay556

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#2199101 15-Mar-2019 20:25

Any of the simple downloadable DNS Crypt applications get around ISP blocks.

kinginvercargill

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#2199107 15-Mar-2019 20:30

Part of a Dunedin Street has now been evacuated:

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/part-dunedin-street-evacuated-after-report-city-was-original-target

NPCtom

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#2199111 15-Mar-2019 20:34

timmay556:

Any of the simple downloadable DNS Crypt applications get around ISP blocks.

Even reloading the page bypasses that.

Talkiet

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#2199113 15-Mar-2019 20:38

irongarment: [snip]

It's still wrong. Censoring the internet is what tin pot dictators do. The best action (that could be taken) is to leave things alone.

Who decides what, when, and for how long to censor? Under what authority? To whom are they answerable? What are the penalities, if any, for circumventing, or attempting the circumvent the censorship?

Which other services should be shut down? Land lines? Cell towers? Calls and SMS, or just one of them? What about radios?

I'm not saying that today's events are not terrible. They are. And it's a crisis for some, but not for me, and I suspect (since you are posting on Geekzone), neither for you.

Since I have plenty of time in my comfortable lounge to consider what a proportionate response might be then I'll post about it. I'm pretty sure there are people in authority who also have time to carefully consider what should be done. They've probably already thought of it and drafted a protocol, which can now be executed. Knee-jerk reactionary responses should be discouraged.

[Disclaimer: This is me, this is NOT a Spark view]

I'm desperately disappointed to be responding to anything here tonight but your post got to me, it's not because I think you're a terrible person, or deliberately want to offend so many people - it's because you're mostly right, and I agree with your major points.

But in the context of today, in the context of ISPs that could take simple TEMPORARY action to prevent some people opening links that led to a video of a mass murder that had just happened, in the context of being a f*cking empathetic normal human being, you failed.

Despite probably sharing your larger view, I was involved in the decision today to block some clearly illegal material that is the most objectionable content I have ever seen. I'm older than most of you here I'm sure, and I have been in the industry for a while and using the internet for nearly 3 decades.

FYI you're also wrong about some things, factually. The DIA DCEFS filter exists in NZ and barely anyone complains about that. There are also protocols in place (overseas for sure - I don't know about here) for shutting down cell networks in extraordinary circumstances.

FWIW, I'd make the same recommendation again, 1000 times over.

If you seriously want to have this discussion, learn to read the damn room. This isn't the time or the place.

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

larknz

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#2199114 15-Mar-2019 20:39

What about the right to privacy of those who have killed or injured. Censorship has its place.

BarTender

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#2199116 15-Mar-2019 20:43

irongarment: It's still wrong. Censoring the internet is what tin pot dictators do. The best action (that could be taken) is to leave things alone.

Who decides what, when, and for how long to censor? Under what authority? To whom are they answerable? What are the penalities, if any, for circumventing, or attempting the circumvent the censorship?

Yeah nah sorry.
They are right wing terrorists sites.
There is no reason why they should be tolerated.

MikeB4

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#2199118 15-Mar-2019 20:45

Can't we can the censorship rubbish and think about the folks that have been killed and injured and the families that have been thrown into a nightmare.

Coil

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#2199119 15-Mar-2019 20:45

BarTender:
irongarment: It's still wrong. Censoring the internet is what tin pot dictators do. The best action (that could be taken) is to leave things alone.

Who decides what, when, and for how long to censor? Under what authority? To whom are they answerable? What are the penalities, if any, for circumventing, or attempting the circumvent the censorship?

Yeah nah sorry.
They are right wing terrorists sites.
There is no reason why they should be tolerated.

With that logic the first thing you should block is Facebook, might want to do away with any search engine so you can’t look up how to make a bomb.

networkn

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#2199120 15-Mar-2019 20:47

Can we please move discussions about censorship to another thread.

BarTender

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#2199121 15-Mar-2019 20:48

Coil:
BarTender:
irongarment: It's still wrong. Censoring the internet is what tin pot dictators do. The best action (that could be taken) is to leave things alone.

Who decides what, when, and for how long to censor? Under what authority? To whom are they answerable? What are the penalities, if any, for circumventing, or attempting the circumvent the censorship?

Yeah nah sorry.
They are right wing terrorists sites.
There is no reason why they should be tolerated.

With that logic the first thing you should block is Facebook, might want to do away with any search engine so you can’t look up how to make a bomb.

Facebook does something about it.
These sites encourage it.
Don't be so obtuse.

Dial111

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#2199124 15-Mar-2019 20:52

ITT: people more worried about the interwebz being blocked over the worst terror attack to hit our shores.

Go read a book, you’ll live ffs

irongarment

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#2199129 15-Mar-2019 20:58

Talkiet:
irongarment: [snip]

It's still wrong. Censoring the internet is what tin pot dictators do. The best action (that could be taken) is to leave things alone.

Who decides what, when, and for how long to censor? Under what authority? To whom are they answerable? What are the penalities, if any, for circumventing, or attempting the circumvent the censorship?

Which other services should be shut down? Land lines? Cell towers? Calls and SMS, or just one of them? What about radios?

I'm not saying that today's events are not terrible. They are. And it's a crisis for some, but not for me, and I suspect (since you are posting on Geekzone), neither for you.

Since I have plenty of time in my comfortable lounge to consider what a proportionate response might be then I'll post about it. I'm pretty sure there are people in authority who also have time to carefully consider what should be done. They've probably already thought of it and drafted a protocol, which can now be executed. Knee-jerk reactionary responses should be discouraged.

[Disclaimer: This is me, this is NOT a Spark view]

I'm desperately disappointed to be responding to anything here tonight but your post got to me, it's not because I think you're a terrible person, or deliberately want to offend so many people - it's because you're mostly right, and I agree with your major points.

But in the context of today, in the context of ISPs that could take simple TEMPORARY action to prevent some people opening links that led to a video of a mass murder that had just happened, in the context of being a f*cking empathetic normal human being, you failed.

Despite probably sharing your larger view, I was involved in the decision today to block some clearly illegal material that is the most objectionable content I have ever seen. I'm older than most of you here I'm sure, and I have been in the industry for a while and using the internet for nearly 3 decades.

FYI you're also wrong about some things, factually. The DIA DCEFS filter exists in NZ and barely anyone complains about that. There are also protocols in place (overseas for sure - I don't know about here) for shutting down cell networks in extraordinary circumstances.

FWIW, I'd make the same recommendation again, 1000 times over.

If you seriously want to have this discussion, learn to read the damn room. This isn't the time or the place.

N

When is the time? I would have thought now was an excellent time, what with it being particularly relevant and all.

What I don't like is you deciding what I get to see. I also object to you deciding what other people get to see (except your kids as you are responsible for their well-being). Myself, personally I have no wish to see the video (or similar material) that is being talked about, so I chose not to look. That's pretty much it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with YouTube or Facebook or any other website removing objectionable content from their web servers. But that's not what we are talking about.

Again, who decides what to censor, when, and for how long? If ISPs are acting ultra vires then that is not acceptable.

NPCtom

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#2199135 15-Mar-2019 21:07

The http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-victims-fund page is down. Most likely due to increased traffic.

MikeB4

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#2199136 15-Mar-2019 21:07

irongarment:
When is the time? I would have thought now was an excellent time, what with it being particularly relevant and all.

What I don't like is you deciding what I get to see. I also object to you deciding what other people get to see (except your kids as you are responsible for their well-being). Myself, personally I have no wish to see the video (or similar material) that is being talked about, so I chose not to look. That's pretty much it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with YouTube or Facebook or any other website removing objectionable content from their web servers. But that's not what we are talking about.

Again, who decides what to censor, when, and for how long? If ISPs are acting ultra vires then that is not acceptable.

Get over yourself, it is not about you

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