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Topic # 115712 4-Apr-2013 09:52
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I'm not sure how many of you watch Breakfast in the mornings but this morning featured the lovely Judith Collins (Minister for Justice) talking about waging war on cyber bullies.

Now I'm all for this discussion and can see the positives it may bring. However, when you have the minister talking on national television saying stuff like "These ISP people" and "ISPs can be notified and go and take these online messages down" I really do wonder how they can talk about making these laws when they don't have the first clue about how the internet works.

I believe there were similar problems when the 'skynet' bill was being introduced. It really does annoy me that certain laws/bills can be introduced into parliament and sometimes passed when the creator and people voting for it don't have the slightest clue about how these things work. 

Anyone else find this frustrating.




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  Reply # 792956 4-Apr-2013 09:56
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In these cases it is their advisors who are at fault.




Mike
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  Reply # 792959 4-Apr-2013 09:58
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https://internetnz.net.nz/news/media-releases/2013/Cross-party-support-Internet-seminar-series

Internet New Zealand is addressing exactly this issue currently.

Members of Parliament from across the political spectrum will this week convene for the first of a series of seminars exploring the twists and turns of the global Internet landscape.

Organised by InternetNZ (Internet New Zealand Inc), the Parliamentary Internet Forum seminar on Wednesday will focus on ‘who controls the Internet’ with former ICANN Chair Peter Dengate-Thrush taking the reins as guest speaker.

Dengate-Thrush is a world expert on Internet governance, having chaired InternetNZ, the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association and the board of ICANN (the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers). He will address the assembled politicians on the governance of the underlying resources of the Internet, primarily the domain name system and the IP Address allocation system.

InternetNZ Policy Lead Susan Chalmers says that the Parliamentary Internet Forum aims to involve Parliamentarians in thinking more about the sheer breadth of Internet issues now facing society.

“As the Internet grows in both reach and importance, it is crucial for New Zealand's digital future that our politicians are across new and challenging Internet policy issues.”

National Party MP Simon O’Connor describes the Parliamentary Internet Forum as “an opportunity for Members of Parliament to learn more about what has become one of the most profound means of human interaction”. The role of legislators can only be enhanced by understanding both the structure and potential of the Internet, he says.

Green Party MP Gareth Hughes agrees, saying it is great that MPs can work together across party lines to help all of Parliament get up to speed on Internet issues.

Labour Party MP Clare Curran says that politicians from all parties will find to their cost that ignorance of the power dynamics on the internet affects the ability to make good laws. “Access to the internet, access to information and the role of nation states in controlling their own future economies rely on understanding who controls the internet. That's why it's so important we have this forum,” she says.

InternetNZ and the National, Labour and Green parties cordially invite all Members of Parliament to this first Parliamentary Internet Forum, and strongly encourage them to come together with their peers to learn more about the Internet.

For more information contact:

Susan Chalmers
Spokesperson
InternetNZ
susan@internetnz.net.nz
021 284 7065




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  Reply # 792960 4-Apr-2013 09:58
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Unfortunately 'minister not having the first clue' is the rule, not the exception. We elect about a hundred people to make rules about everything that affects our daily lives. How can they be expected to understand it all? That's why we also have a civil service: it's *their* job to be the experts on all the details. A wise minister doesn't need to be an expert on everything; he or she needs to listen to the advisers.

So, it's not so much that Judith Collins doesn't understand the internet that worries me; it's that she doesn't understand the internet *and* apparently didn't bother to pay attention in school.




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  Reply # 792972 4-Apr-2013 10:13
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SaltyNZ: Unfortunately 'minister not having the first clue' is the rule, not the exception. We elect about a hundred people to make rules about everything that affects our daily lives. How can they be expected to understand it all? That's why we also have a civil service: it's *their* job to be the experts on all the details. A wise minister doesn't need to be an expert on everything; he or she needs to listen to the advisers.

So, it's not so much that Judith Collins doesn't understand the internet that worries me; it's that she doesn't understand the internet *and* apparently didn't bother to pay attention in school.


When Judith Collins was at school there was no internet.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 792977 4-Apr-2013 10:17
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SaltyNZ: A wise minister doesn't need to be an expert on everything; he or she needs to listen to the advisers.


Listen to advisers and decide what makes sense or not. And then decide to talk on things they know for sure.





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  Reply # 792984 4-Apr-2013 10:30
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KiwiNZ: 

When Judith Collins was at school there was no internet.


I didn't mean literally school, I meant 'when her advisers were advising her'.




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  Reply # 792991 4-Apr-2013 10:39
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The key issue here is that Judith is addressing these issues.

Yes it's going to take some work from the rest of us to get legislation that makes sense and we can work with, but at least we have buy in from the people who make this stuff happen.

I think it is time that we had laws that simply say no to on line abuse in public forums.

I agree with Dean Pemberton that we really shouldn't have a separate set of 'cyber/internet only' laws, but if that is what it's going to take to send the message that abusing people is not ok then that's where we need to go for a while.

Clearly industry self regulation has failed when we get to the point where internet trolls are bashing up media reporters.





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  Reply # 792992 4-Apr-2013 10:40
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Kingy: I'm not sure how many of you watch Breakfast in the mornings but this morning featured the lovely Judith Collins (Minister for Justice) talking about waging war on cyber bullies.

Now I'm all for this discussion and can see the positives it may bring. However, when you have the minister talking on national television saying stuff like "These ISP people" and "ISPs can be notified and go and take these online messages down" I really do wonder how they can talk about making these laws when they don't have the first clue about how the internet works.

I believe there were similar problems when the 'skynet' bill was being introduced. It really does annoy me that certain laws/bills can be introduced into parliament and sometimes passed when the creator and people voting for it don't have the slightest clue about how these things work. 

Anyone else find this frustrating.


I saw this too and just about fell over laughing when she talked about the ISP's taking the messages down.  It also highlights how little the presenters, or the people feeding messages into their ears, know - where was the buzzer on the desk?

Bzzzzzt - "Wrong minister, the ISP's don't have this sort of access into foreign companies websites..."

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  Reply # 792993 4-Apr-2013 10:41
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DonGould: 

Clearly industry self regulation has failed when we get to the point where internet trolls are bashing up media reporters.



Which really has nothing to do with the internet whatsoever.




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  Reply # 792995 4-Apr-2013 10:48
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SaltyNZ:
DonGould: 

Clearly industry self regulation has failed when we get to the point where internet trolls are bashing up media reporters.



Which really has nothing to do with the internet whatsoever.


What?....

Troll abuses people on line --> reporter comes to say hello and ask him about it --> Troll beats up on reporter...

How is that not internet related?

Where to we draw a line?

I guess I sort of take your point...  If I use my 2Degrees mobile phone to bash a reporter then that's hardly 2degrees or the mobile industries fault or even has anything to do with them.

I think this is why Dean was talking about the need to really focus on using existing law to address these issues.

However that just doesn't seem to be working. 

Though who's actually going to enforce these laws? 

Recently we've seen people using technology to capture good evidence of burglars, but our police are just not interested.





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  Reply # 792996 4-Apr-2013 10:49
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Dratsab: 
I saw this too and just about fell over laughing when she talked about the ISP's taking the messages down.  It also highlights how little the presenters, or the people feeding messages into their ears, know - where was the buzzer on the desk?

Bzzzzzt - "Wrong minister, the ISP's don't have this sort of access into foreign companies websites..."


Exactly this. You make a good point about the presenters/people behind the scenes also. Had any of them been clued up at all they could've made that point and asked how exactly they would deal with the likes of facebook/twitter/forums if and when bullying was known to be occurring. Saying something like "ISPs will be able to just remove the messages" gives people listening the false sense that this problem is easily dealt with. 
 




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  Reply # 793093 4-Apr-2013 12:25
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DonGould: 


I guess I sort of take your point...  If I use my 2Degrees mobile phone to bash a reporter then that's hardly 2degrees or the mobile industries fault or even has anything to do with them.




Correct. The issue is that he's an ignorant a**hole who punched someone who was embarrassing him. The reason why that someone happened to be in the right place at the right time to be punched by him is tangential at best. It would make at least as much sense to report the story as 'reporter assaulted after harassing teenager'.

There are assaults every day; why is it somehow more newsworthy that an assault happened because someone said something bad on the internet to someone completely unrelated to the assault?




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  Reply # 793105 4-Apr-2013 12:31
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Lets hope her advisors read this forum.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't put any random person on the operating table or in the pilot seat.

Would you let the government put buffoons manage portfolios that affect the entire country and a 6 figure salary to go with it?


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  Reply # 793113 4-Apr-2013 12:37
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khull: 

Would you let the government put buffoons manage portfolios that affect the entire country and a 6 figure salary to go with it?



Unfortunately, that's what a government IS.

Personally I believe Parliament should be selected completely at random from everyone on the electoral roll. Far better representative of the people.




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