Maori Seats

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Pumpedd

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#217893 17-Jul-2017 15:10

This seems to be quite topical at the moment due to Peters astute electioneering.

But really, why do we still have these special seats in 2017?

Should they not have gone when we ditched the "so-called" undemocratic FPP electoral system?

I realise that without the maori seats national would have lost power a couple of times, but is that any reason?

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MikeB4
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#1823841 17-Jul-2017 15:25

There will come a time when these are not required, this is not the time. When all the issues have been resolved then the Tangata Whenua can instigate it. If there were to be a referendum it should not be a first past the post, a 60 to 70% vote in favour of disestablishment should be required. If approved there should be one or two elections before coming in affect.

The original reasons for their establishment has passed with universal suffrage but they have a great meaning now.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

sen8or

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#1823845 17-Jul-2017 15:30

Isn't Maori representation in Government a treaty issue?

And I didn't think it was the "maori seats" that got National to govt rather the Maori Party?

MikeB4

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#1823865 17-Jul-2017 15:32

sen8or:

Isn't Maori representation in Government a treaty issue?

And I didn't think it was the "maori seats" that got National to govt rather the Maori Party?

They were originally established due the condition that only property owners could vote. Maori owned property collectively in the 1800s so were not eligible to vote.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lias

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#1823872 17-Jul-2017 15:37

Maori parliamentary seats are one of the most visible symptoms of apartheid in NZ, and should have gone decades ago. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were European or Asian only seats in parliament, everyone and his dog would be decrying it.

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Geektastic

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#1823874 17-Jul-2017 15:39

It doesn't seem appropriate in 2017, certainly.

MikeB4

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#1823875 17-Jul-2017 15:40

Lias:

Maori parliamentary seats are one of the most visible symptoms of apartheid in NZ, and should have gone decades ago. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were European or Asian only seats in parliament, everyone and his dog would be decrying it.

there is no apartheid in NZ and that is only counter productive inflammatory language. These issues are better dealt with and discussed without that nonsense.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Lias

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#1823885 17-Jul-2017 15:57

MikeB4:

Lias:

Maori parliamentary seats are one of the most visible symptoms of apartheid in NZ, and should have gone decades ago. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were European or Asian only seats in parliament, everyone and his dog would be decrying it.

there is no apartheid in NZ and that is only counter productive inflammatory language.

That's your opinion Mike, it's decidedly not mine, nor is it backed up by fact.

A couple of the dictionary definitions of apartheid:

a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race
any system or practice that separates people according to color,ethnicity, caste, etc.

Any system that separates or segregates Maori from other New Zealand's is by definition, a form of apartheid. Maori seats fit that definition.

MikeAqua

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#1823890 17-Jul-2017 16:10

Maori seats are voluntary - it's voluntary to be on the Maori role and candidates have a choice whether to stand in a Maori or general seat. That woudl seem to exclude it from the definition of apartheid.

I think the seats should stay as long as Maori want them.

I'm not Maori at all.

Mike

Wiggum

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#1823899 17-Jul-2017 16:25

Pumpedd:

I realise that without the maori seats national would have lost power a couple of times, but is that any reason?

I dont believe that statement is true.

There are still the conservatives which everybody seems to forget (95,598 party votes, 3.97%), but I doubt they will be doing very well in the next election for obvious reasons.

Back on topic, Maori seats should be gone. This is not the 1980's.

Wiggum

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#1823909 17-Jul-2017 16:33

Lias:

That's your opinion Mike, it's decidedly not mine, nor is it backed up by fact.

A couple of the dictionary definitions of apartheid:

a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race
any system or practice that separates people according to color,ethnicity, caste, etc.

Any system that separates or segregates Maori from other New Zealand's is by definition, a form of apartheid. Maori seats fit that definition.

By that definition South Africa still has "apartheid".

tdgeek

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#1823927 17-Jul-2017 16:41

MikeB4:

sen8or:

Isn't Maori representation in Government a treaty issue?

And I didn't think it was the "maori seats" that got National to govt rather the Maori Party?

They were originally established due the condition that only property owners could vote. Maori owned property collectively in the 1800s so were not eligible to vote.

Isn't that a good reason to not now have them?

IMO the seats arent being used to help govern NZ, they are used to seek Maori only gains. They used to align with Labour, now they align with National, to help themselves, and National is happy to cater to them as they are easy seats. If Labour/Greens/NZFirst wins, I bet they defect

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MikeB4

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#1823930 17-Jul-2017 16:53

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

sen8or:

Isn't Maori representation in Government a treaty issue?

And I didn't think it was the "maori seats" that got National to govt rather the Maori Party?

They were originally established due the condition that only property owners could vote. Maori owned property collectively in the 1800s so were not eligible to vote.

Isn't that a good reason to not now have them?

IMO the seats arent being used to help govern NZ, they are used to seek Maori only gains. They used to align with Labour, now they align with National, to help themselves, and National is happy to cater to them as they are easy seats. If Labour/Greens/NZFirst wins, I bet they defect

The original reason has been mitigated now however the need for the seats grew beyond the original, that is to get representation where it mattered to get wrongs put right and to get the Nations founding document honoured that is still a way off being rectified but good progress is being made.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Batman

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#1823939 17-Jul-2017 17:17

MikeB4:

Lias:

Maori parliamentary seats are one of the most visible symptoms of apartheid in NZ, and should have gone decades ago. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were European or Asian only seats in parliament, everyone and his dog would be decrying it.

there is no apartheid in NZ and that is only counter productive inflammatory language. These issues are better dealt with and discussed without that nonsense.

I don't think he knows what apartheid is

Batman

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#1823941 17-Jul-2017 17:21

Lias:

MikeB4:

Lias:

Maori parliamentary seats are one of the most visible symptoms of apartheid in NZ, and should have gone decades ago. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were European or Asian only seats in parliament, everyone and his dog would be decrying it.

there is no apartheid in NZ and that is only counter productive inflammatory language.

That's your opinion Mike, it's decidedly not mine, nor is it backed up by fact.

A couple of the dictionary definitions of apartheid:

a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race
any system or practice that separates people according to color,ethnicity, caste, etc.

Any system that separates or segregates Maori from other New Zealand's is by definition, a form of apartheid. Maori seats fit that definition.

There needs to be discrimination against. Who is discriminated against, and examples of such policy and system please?

You could well be right. But I can't recall any examples of such discrimination. Do you mean when Maori were not allowed to speak Maori in public places? Ah yes I recall now. That could be apartheid, if say they were not allowed to speak Maori in schools leading to impaired education because they could not understand English very well.

Geektastic

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#1823945 17-Jul-2017 17:33

Wiggum:

Lias:

That's your opinion Mike, it's decidedly not mine, nor is it backed up by fact.

A couple of the dictionary definitions of apartheid:

a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race
any system or practice that separates people according to color,ethnicity, caste, etc.

Any system that separates or segregates Maori from other New Zealand's is by definition, a form of apartheid. Maori seats fit that definition.

By that definition South Africa still has "apartheid".

Every Saffer I know will tell you it does.

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