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Topic # 237475 4-Jun-2018 15:42
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  Reply # 2029312 4-Jun-2018 16:00
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I think he deserves it. While he wasn't perfect, unlike many politicians I really think he looked past the next three years. He tried to look behind many of the problems that plague our country to try and lay the foundations for fixing the root causes rather than throwing money at the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. 

 

I thought it spoke volumes that after he lost his seat in last years election Te Ururoa Flavell said in his opinion Bill English was the best person to lead the next government. This came from a man who had worked beside Bill English. I don't think Te Ururoa Flavell had any reason to be saying nice things about Bill English at that time unless he really believed what he said. 





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  Reply # 2029330 4-Jun-2018 17:30
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It must have been a huge surprise for him to get a knighthood - instead of being the only ex-PM in 70 years who wanted one but didn't get it.

 

(Lange didn't want one, Moore, Bolger, Clark have ONZ)


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  Reply # 2029341 4-Jun-2018 17:42
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While English and Key obviously did a better job than the muppets running the economy in Argentina, let's never forget the formula for re-election they came up with.  After lots of polling & gut instinct they decided to:

 

1. Open the flood gates to immigration in order to boost GDP.

 

2. Facilitate the 'fake' English and business courses which were simply a back door for those hoping to gain residence.

 

3. Use record immigration and international students to keep the housing market extremely lucrative for their core support and a majority of swing voters.

 

None of this happened by accident. Key, English, and Joyce had it all worked out a very long time ago.

 

Forgot to mention the flood of young immigrant students provided a vast pool of cheap compliant labour for supermarkets, cleaning companies, smart phone shops, etc etc


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  Reply # 2029356 4-Jun-2018 18:02
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@amiga500

 

Let's see how well the current muppets running our fair country fare after 3 years.

 

One thing you don't appear to realise is there are a lot of compromises when you are in government. It's hard to fix one problem without causing other problems. 

 

The current government campaigned on reducing immigration. What's happened? Not enough staff to harvest some of our crops. They also campaigned on fixing the housing problem. That's looking like a big flop already. How many houses were they going to build? How affordable were they going to be? I guess $650,000 is affordable for some people. Certainly not me and I don't consider myself poor. They've claimed they're going to spend up big in the regions, but they're not talking much about the projects they've cancelled to fund some of their promises.

 

We're about the be raped and pillaged with new fuel taxes. There's a few more nasty surprises in store yet from the current government I fear.

 

Finally, even when you are the government each minister has to compromise to accommodate other requirements, which is something I think Bill did better than most. While Bill wasn't perfect I think he had a better balance on how things should be done than most politicians.





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  Reply # 2029373 4-Jun-2018 19:22
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I am really uncomfortable with the subjective nature of the honours system. The merits of a particular decision depend hugely on your political views.

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  Reply # 2029385 4-Jun-2018 19:49
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@technofreak - you've got it right, it's all about compromise.

 

The immigration thing's compromise is those farmers aren't going to be able to get away with abusing the poorly laid out employment law we currently have and do the bare minimum, they're actually going to have to make it a job people are willing to do, instead of something they hope immigrants will come and put up with for a few weeks/months until they leave for greener pastures. Sounds like a compromise that hurts a few well to dos to greatly benefit their potential employees, and improve the average quality of life. Good deal.

 

Fixing the housing problem - that's a tricky one, there's no magic bullet, but if they start bringing in these properties at fixed prices, that gives young professionals, couples, etc. something that is set in concrete to reach for, rather than the perpetually raising costs thanks to the concept of property investment running rife in NZ - it's the first of many steps, which sadly due to the previous governments aggressive election campaign and deceit, has had to have the brakes on for the current term.

 

Regarding the regional spending, what kind of fool would talk up the wonders of the things that won't be, when they're reallocating and working on what will be? Have a bit of realism - I'm a bleeding heart lefty, I'll gladly say that the National party did a lot right in their terms as government, however sadly their voting block does seem to be embarrassed millionaires, my 29 year old mate for instance who up until this year was convinced Labour & Co would cost him money in his low paying trade job (but my god is he shocked that the minimum wage rises are actually having a knock on effect for himself!), and that's let National run amok a bit. It's good to see them held to account, and even if they do retake the govt next run, they'll certainly liberalize a bit more for the next pass to ensure they hold that power.

 

The fuel taxes - something tells me that you're not actually one of the people who'll be hardest hit, just someone who likes to complain. Talk to your employer about cost of living, upskill and find a better paid job, or seek somewhere more realistic for your budget. It's what the National party would recommend. The only thing I would change about the fuel tax being implemented, is I would make an adjustment to the tax credits for those earning below a threshold to compensate for this extra cost.

 

Your last point, compromise, is fair - Bill wasn't bad at it. He never really got a chance to flex it though - he was always kept in the cupboard doing the accounting, and not out and about until the last innings, where he didn't really get the chance to make as big an impact as I suspect he would've liked. Of all the key (heh) ministers, I'd say he was one of the ones best kept out of the spotlight, which was a feat for the Dept. PM.


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  Reply # 2029393 4-Jun-2018 20:01
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I don't agree with honors given to those just doing a job for which they are paid like politicians, business persons, civil servants, actors and entertainers etc.   





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 2029394 4-Jun-2018 20:03
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MikeB4:

 

I don't agree with honors given to those just doing a job for which they are paid like politicians, business persons, civil servants, actors and entertainers etc.   

 

 

I sort of agree with the sentiment, but in reality the honours are an oddball thing anyway - an additional recognition for those who are already recognized. End of the day, as long as it isn't costing us much, I say let them have it and feel warm and fuzzy about themselves for a day or week or whatever.




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  Reply # 2029399 4-Jun-2018 20:10
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MikeB4:

 

I don't agree with honors given to those just doing a job for which they are paid like politicians, business persons, civil servants, actors and entertainers etc.   

 

 

We get bonuses at work based on individual performance. Just pitching up for work and doing what you expected is generally not enough. I think bonuses/recognition is a good incentive in the workplace, it promotes staff to do their more than just their job. Is this really any different?


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  Reply # 2029407 4-Jun-2018 20:25
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The housing market has always baffled me (sorry to go off on a tangent for a moment). When I moved to Auckland in 2002, there were houses for Africa, and the "nice" ones (ie, almost mansions) were the ones that cost over $500000. Now $500000 will hardly get you anything. Hell, even in 2007 it wasn't so bad. Rentals were aplenty and they were all reasonably priced. Today even a 1-bedroom bedsit (on the Shore,at least) won't give you much change out of $300 a week - yikes!

 

What happened after 2007 to make prices skyrocket so much? Is it 100% National's fault it happened? Not enough houses built? Too many immigrants?
Are prices going to just keep rising forever and a day, or are they going to revert to 2002/2007 levels, ever?


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  Reply # 2029408 4-Jun-2018 20:25
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it's the countless volunteers and unsung heroes that deserve recognition.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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  Reply # 2029427 4-Jun-2018 20:34
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MikeB4:

 

it's the countless volunteers and unsung heroes that deserve recognition.

 

 

Anyone can nominate someone for an honour. Perhaps you could nominate these unsung heroes Mike.

 

https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/honours-unit

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2029449 4-Jun-2018 20:51
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@toejam316

 

Why is it the farmers always get singled out as the bad employer? The wages being paid (or not being paid as you allege) has very little to do with it. Current unemployment is at historically low levels and finding enough suitable local workers is the problem. There's shortages everywhere even the building and construction industries. We have to compromise allow immigration or stifle some of our industries.

 

How long can this government keep on blaming the last government. The housing issue is complex, Labour kept going on about Nationals efforts which were well below what was promised, now the Labour coalition are finding they cannot deliver either. Pot, kettle black.

 

You've completely lost me with your regional spending argument. I was referring to major badly needed regional infrastructure programmes that have been cancelled by the current government. These programmes had had significant preliminary work done and on the ground work had started or had start dates programmed. Yet Labour are bragging about regional spending. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

Fuel taxes. I fully expect to bear the full impact of these. In fact we all will be impacted one way or another. I'll bet the price of fuel will not be 11.5 cents dearer in Auckland than elsewhere. Why should anyone outside of Auckland be paying for Auckland infrastructure? It's just another money grab. For too long governments and local authorities have been happy to increase taxes rather than keep their spending in check and live within their budgets. Unfortunately history shows Labour governments are generally worse at spending more and taxing more than National governments.

 

I don't think you give Bill anywhere enough credit for the work he did as Minister of Finance. Hidden in the cupboard, no not really. I do agree he didn't have long enough as PM to do more. I really think he deserved the opportunity to achieve his goals for New Zealand.

 

 

 

@MikeB4

 

Yes, they are paid to do a job. Do they get well paid for the amount time they spend on public duty and the disruption to their family life? That's probably debatable especially when you see what some CEO's get paid. 

 

Do some politicians do a better job than others? Most definitely. Should they be recognised? I think so.





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  Reply # 2029470 4-Jun-2018 22:14
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for me the honours have little mana





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 2029517 4-Jun-2018 23:15
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Technofreak:

 

@toejam316

 

Why is it the farmers always get singled out as the bad employer? The wages being paid (or not being paid as you allege) has very little to do with it. Current unemployment is at historically low levels and finding enough suitable local workers is the problem. There's shortages everywhere even the building and construction industries. We have to compromise allow immigration or stifle some of our industries.

 

How long can this government keep on blaming the last government. The housing issue is complex, Labour kept going on about Nationals efforts which were well below what was promised, now the Labour coalition are finding they cannot deliver either. Pot, kettle black.

 

You've completely lost me with your regional spending argument. I was referring to major badly needed regional infrastructure programmes that have been cancelled by the current government. These programmes had had significant preliminary work done and on the ground work had started or had start dates programmed. Yet Labour are bragging about regional spending. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

Fuel taxes. I fully expect to bear the full impact of these. In fact we all will be impacted one way or another. I'll bet the price of fuel will not be 11.5 cents dearer in Auckland than elsewhere. Why should anyone outside of Auckland be paying for Auckland infrastructure? It's just another money grab. For too long governments and local authorities have been happy to increase taxes rather than keep their spending in check and live within their budgets. Unfortunately history shows Labour governments are generally worse at spending more and taxing more than National governments.

 

I don't think you give Bill anywhere enough credit for the work he did as Minister of Finance. Hidden in the cupboard, no not really. I do agree he didn't have long enough as PM to do more. I really think he deserved the opportunity to achieve his goals for New Zealand.

 

 

 

@MikeB4

 

Yes, they are paid to do a job. Do they get well paid for the amount time they spend on public duty and the disruption to their family life? That's probably debatable especially when you see what some CEO's get paid. 

 

Do some politicians do a better job than others? Most definitely. Should they be recognised? I think so.

 

 

Regarding the farmers, it's not all farmers, it's specifically these fruit farmers, because they ARE a bad employer. There was an article published recently, where they talked to some of the workers, and tourists literally said they could only bear working there in the conditions because of the knowledge that it was temporary, and coming to an end in a few weeks or a month for them. Combine that with the stagnant quota payments that are meant to incentivise the workers, and it's clear that the current model needs to be reworked if they want to remain a competitive employer. If they can't offer jobs that people want to do, they need to re-evaluate what they're doing, because clearly it's a failed business model.

 

The current govt will of course blame the previous govt - just as National in opposition is laying into the Labour Coalition now, because that's what opposition does. Your argument seems to be that the last guys were doing a bad job, the new guys haven't fixed it within the last year or so, we might as well let the previous lot back on the job to stay the course.

 

The fuel taxes are an unfortunate side effect of a harsh reality - we need some sort of transport infrastructure that isn't roads. Someone has to suffer for these sort of projects, and unfortunately it's our generation. Will they keep the tax localized to Auckland? I hope so, because I live in the Waikato and I don't want my fuel prices to go up further. Fingers crossed though more and more pressure will be applied to the fuel companies, and we'll see some downwards change in pricing, because it just keeps going up anyway.

 

Spending more and taxing more, we'll see, the current government hasn't applied any taxes as yet, so they're holding to their pledge so far, which is a lot better than the previous government refusing to raise tax, and then immediately "simplifying" GST by raising it.

 

The hidden in the cupboard comment is more pointing out that Bill simply wasn't exposed to the world - John's cult of personality combined with all the surrounding ministers very much kept Bill in the background. He may have done fantastic work, but it was very heavily overshadowed, to the point where he doesn't really have his own legacy, just a slice of John Key's one. Certainly, if National does take power again, I would rather English be in charge than Simon Bridges, but that's another debate entirely.

 

The only real criticism I'd level is surely between John and Bill, there were some key people behind the scenes probably a lot more deserving of this recognition, especially considering they otherwise would get none publicly.


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