Why politicians should not run countries

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Rikkitic

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#242836 16-Nov-2018 10:24

Brexit has been a complete disaster from the beginning, an absolute amateur hour stuff-up in every way imaginable. Vast amounts of resources (money and personnel) have been sucked into this completely pointless vortex. The British have gone out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again. They have thrown to the winds any credibility they still had as a country to be taken seriously on the world stage. They have done real damage to their economy as well as their international standing and they have created great uncertainty for previously-thriving multicultural businesses and individuals that thought Britain was a good choice for a European home. All of this to achieve absolutely nothing. At the end of this destructive rampage of bull in china shop thrashing about, they will end up either being unceremoniously kicked out of Europe with no deal of any kind, or not leaving at all after spending untold amounts of time, effort and money on this useless distraction from the real business of government. One has to seriously wonder if the descendants of Monty Python are running that country. If not, they should be, because they certainly couldn't do a worse job of it.

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#2127830 16-Nov-2018 10:54

Who should?

You prefer a dictatorship?

I dont understand your point at all. The people voted for Brexit. The only thing that was wrong it should have needed at least a 60% vote before change.

Maybe the real lesson is that people should do more homework before they exercise their democratic choices in voting.

6FIEND

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#2127833 16-Nov-2018 11:05

Actually, I read the Topic, and was fully expecting to come in here and see a discussion about this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/15/japanese_cyber_security_minister_doesnt_know_what_a_usb_stick_is/

;-)

MikeB4

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#2127847 16-Nov-2018 11:19

Rikkitic:

Brexit has been a complete disaster from the beginning, an absolute amateur hour stuff-up in every way imaginable. Vast amounts of resources (money and personnel) have been sucked into this completely pointless vortex. The British have gone out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again. They have thrown to the winds any credibility they still had as a country to be taken seriously on the world stage. They have done real damage to their economy as well as their international standing and they have created great uncertainty for previously-thriving multicultural businesses and individuals that thought Britain was a good choice for a European home. All of this to achieve absolutely nothing. At the end of this destructive rampage of bull in china shop thrashing about, they will end up either being unceremoniously kicked out of Europe with no deal of any kind, or not leaving at all after spending untold amounts of time, effort and money on this useless distraction from the real business of government. One has to seriously wonder if the descendants of Monty Python are running that country. If not, they should be, because they certainly couldn't do a worse job of it.

That is harsh, you may not agree with the decision they have made but it is their decision to make. Your post reeks of similar arogance that many see a certain US politician dispalying.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#2127848 16-Nov-2018 11:20

Bluntj:

Who should?

You prefer a dictatorship?

I dont understand your point at all. The people voted for Brexit. The only thing that was wrong it should have needed at least a 60% vote before change.

Maybe the real lesson is that people should do more homework before they exercise their democratic choices in voting.

Satire: The use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Sarcasm: remarks that mean the opposite of what they say, made to criticize someone or something in a way that is amusing to others but annoying to the person criticized:

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Rikkitic

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#2127850 16-Nov-2018 11:21

6FIEND:

Actually, I read the Topic, and was fully expecting to come in here and see a discussion about this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/15/japanese_cyber_security_minister_doesnt_know_what_a_usb_stick_is/

;-)

Also excellent choice. You have a fine feeling for this kind of thing.

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Rikkitic

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#2127853 16-Nov-2018 11:22

MikeB4:

That is harsh, you may not agree with the decision they have made but it is their decision to make. Your post reeks of similar arogance that many see a certain US politician dispalying.

See above. Take a breath. Have a cup of tea/

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MikeB4

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#2127874 16-Nov-2018 12:01

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

That is harsh, you may not agree with the decision they have made but it is their decision to make. Your post reeks of similar arogance that many see a certain US politician dispalying.

See above. Take a breath. Have a cup of tea/

Ask yourself what would be your reaction if this was said in the Ardern thread about the PM and the Coalition.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#2127886 16-Nov-2018 12:19

Worse than that has been said about her and the coalition. I will respond to things I feel strongly about, just as you have done. What's the difference?

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SJB

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#2128003 16-Nov-2018 15:16

You are commenting as a died in the wool European.

Many Brits don't identify as European in the slightest. I don't know whether that's because of the physical gap ie the Channel/North Sea or if it's historical but that's how it is.

I would have voted to leave if I still lived in the UK but felt it wasn't appropriate seeing as I'm never going back. In the original referendum I voted to join believing it to be a beneficial trading arrangement and that was as far as I wanted it to go. The change to a political arrangement brought about by subsequent treaties was never put to the British people because the politicians of the time knew they would lose such a vote. If there had been a vote it's possible the UK would have left years ago.

What I would say is that after the referendum the situation demanded a British leader who could inspire and bring the UK together to maximise any benefits that might accrue from leaving. Theresa May was not that leader unfortunately. She is an example of the sort of politician where compromise is everything. In these negotiations it might have been better for both sides if she had adopted a position and stuck to it rather than change what she thought was acceptable depending on who she was trying to appease.

And now it's an almighty mess.

Rikkitic

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#2128027 16-Nov-2018 15:58

Yes I am European but I get what you are saying. It is a valid viewpoint. But as has been pointed out, the referendum to leave was very badly managed from the start. I suspect that may have been at least partly because those in power never expected the Brexiters would actually win so they were just going through the motions. A lot like the Trump victory.

I agree with @Bluntj and others that it never should have been set up as a simple majority vote. Something this momentous needs at least 60% or more approval. Otherwise you always have a huge minority angry because they lost out. It is a dumb way to make a decision on such a major issue.

Since the vote, the entire process has been a mismanaged comedy of errors. The result is that the people of Britain are going to end up with the worst of all possible worlds. This is a completely unnecessary tragedy, due only to monumental bungling and nothing else. I have friends who, like many others, are wondering what the hell to do with their lives. They used to know where they were headed. Now they have no idea. He is Italian, she is Dutch, their children are British, they live in England, and they work for British branches of overseas companies. They used to have good lives and a predictable future. Now they haven't a clue. All of this is a self-inflicted wound. It didn't have to be this way, whether Britain had exited or not. As you say, it is an almighty mess.

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#2128047 16-Nov-2018 16:32

I wasn't in the UK at the time of the referendum but I get the impression that as you say the remainers thought it would be a walk over. It also wasn't helpful that some senior Eurocrats (Jean Claude Junker comes to mind, a person I have always detested) lectured Brits on how stupid it was for them to think of exiting. They took that badly.

Even if the referendum had been set up for needing a 60% majority, if the result is close to a 50-50 split as it was you are going to end up with a large proportion of the population unhappy. Really you are just kicking the can down the road as whoever lost such a tight vote will simply keep campaigning to get another referendum with the result they want. Which is what's happening now.

As for your friends I think it will be the decision of the company they work for that decides what happens to them. It's my understanding that it will be pretty straightforward for them to stay working in Britain as far as the Government is concerned (ie visas, work permits etc).

It is a pity that the negotiations were not more open. It would have kept people informed on progress or lack of it, what the sticking points were and who, if anybody, was being unreasonable. As I posted before the British side lacked strong leadership and it seems any clear vision of what was negotiable and what wasn't but that's just an impression. Without more information you can't really tell for sure.

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#2128116 16-Nov-2018 18:14

Apart from the hysteria about refugee invasion, Brexit had been fueled by decades of lies/fake news/Euromyths propagated by the tabloid press. Straight bananas and gay frogs (probably).

It was incredibly dumb to hold a referendum when the "leave" vote was some kind of whimsical notion of "Great" Britain, but with no f%$cking idea how it could be implemented. How dumb could you be to forget about complications, hard or soft border in Ireland, and what the consequences (may still be) are. Some notion of forging new trade alliances, some notion that because Junker may have been unpopular - what he said was automatically wrong. Yeah - he "lectured" them.

A poignant tweet:

SJB

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#2128118 16-Nov-2018 18:24

Fred99:

Brexit had been fueled by decades of lies/fake news/Euromyths propagated by the tabloid press.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. And can we leave out the pseudo swearing.

Fred99

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#2128121 16-Nov-2018 18:30

SJB:

Fred99:

Brexit had been fueled by decades of lies/fake news/Euromyths propagated by the tabloid press.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. And can we leave out the pseudo swearing.

No it's not, and no.

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#2128127 16-Nov-2018 18:44

I think that the initial premise of the thread is incorrect.
Politicians set policy and enact laws, but bureaucrats run the country. Right from ministries all the way down to your local council.
So if you don't have duly elected representatives how do you enable the will of the people to be enacted?
Or should we just let the corporations run things (some would say they already do).
Or become a theocracy, or a dictatorship, or an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

The bureaucrats in Brussels are as much to blame for the state of things as any of the British Politicians.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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