Complaint a Young Nats groping young woman

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freitasm

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#243120 27-Nov-2018 20:55

Police are investigating complaint after a Young Nats event in Auckland.

The alleged incident occurred after Young Nats Christmas drinks at the Brew on Quay bar last Tuesday; an event two National MPs were said to be attending.

It is alleged a woman, aged 17, and some friends went to the young man's apartment after the event.

The woman was not a Young Nat member and was a guest at the event, according to Newsroom.

The woman was allegedly taken to a room at the man's apartment, where he tried to grab her face and kiss her, while keeping her away from her friends.

After leaving the room and the apartment, it is alleged she was pursued across the road and into a fast food outlet's toilets by the man, who allegedly continued to grope her.

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#2135584 28-Nov-2018 07:20

National just seems to keep piling on the pain.

freitasm

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#2135596 28-Nov-2018 07:49

Nats suspended man only after story broke.

Without mincing words, my point is that a lot people criticised the PM and Labour's handling of a similar situation just months ago. I want to see the same people do this here too and make it about the fact, not the side of the house.

Rikkitic

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#2135607 28-Nov-2018 08:22

freitasm:

Nats suspended man only after story broke.

Without mincing words, my point is that a lot people criticised the PM and Labour's handling of a similar situation just months ago. I want to see the same people do this here too and make it about the fact, not the side of the house.

@networkn

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#2135610 28-Nov-2018 08:27

National need to review their management at all levels if they want to regain some credence and mana by 2020.

networkn

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#2135665 28-Nov-2018 08:58

freitasm:

Nats suspended man only after story broke.

Without mincing words, my point is that a lot people criticised the PM and Labour's handling of a similar situation just months ago. I want to see the same people do this here too and make it about the fact, not the side of the house.

The facts and situation are pretty different, however I completely agree that the accuseds membership should have been suspended as soon as a complaint was made whilst an investigation was held. Accountability for that decision should occur.

Honestly, I can't understand why alcohol is required/allowed/encouraged at any youth events. The right to drink attitude in NZ is awful.

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#2136216 28-Nov-2018 18:19

I despise young Nats, young Labour, church youth groups, any of those organisations intent on brainwashing developing minds.

I do recall a nasty young person I knew in my youth, who insisted that joining such groups was a great idea for "picking up easy girls". Nope - not for me. I do think there's something in it though, earnest and impressionable young people can be easily manipulated by people with dishonest intent.

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#2136233 28-Nov-2018 18:58

Scientologists want to give you a personality test.

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#2136923 30-Nov-2018 01:22

There are very good people with genuine intent who are members of the National party, Labour party and McGillicudy Serious party, Spark, Vodafone, Small Businesses, Churches etc.

There are scummy people who are out for themselves at the expense of of others and are members of National party, Labour party and McGillicudy Serious party, Spark, Vodafone, Small Businesses, Churches etc.

No one usually comes out of these types of incidents looking good, regardless of what is more often than not a sincere intent to deal with them appropriately and in a way that is focused toward the victims.

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#2137168 30-Nov-2018 12:58

Handle9:

There are very good people with genuine intent who are members of the National party, Labour party and McGillicudy Serious party, Spark, Vodafone, Small Businesses, Churches etc.

There are scummy people who are out for themselves at the expense of of others and are members of National party, Labour party and McGillicudy Serious party, Spark, Vodafone, Small Businesses, Churches etc.

No one usually comes out of these types of incidents looking good, regardless of what is more often than not a sincere intent to deal with them appropriately and in a way that is focused toward the victims.

Very good point.

networkn

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#2137214 30-Nov-2018 13:07

I agree with you in the overall sense. Having said that, there are some basic things that I feel are pretty grim in regard to how these two situations were/are handled.

I beleive you don't declare someone is faultless in a situation like this, without waiting for the results of the investigation. (or before an investigation has even started!)

I believe suspending people (or thier membership) (with pay if warranted) is a reasonable action to take (Which in my view, both situations failed to do), pending an investigation.

I believe that the appropriate people should be communicated with fully as much as possible.

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#2137379 30-Nov-2018 16:40

freitasm:

Nats suspended man only after story broke.

Without mincing words, my point is that a lot people criticised the PM and Labour's handling of a similar situation just months ago. I want to see the same people do this here too and make it about the fact, not the side of the house.

Both of these incidents are awful, and I wouldn't wish them upon anyone. This type of behaviour is reprehensible, and it is entirely correct that we (across the political spectrum) have a zero tolerance for it.

However - if we consider the reported facts of each case:

One involved a perpetrator allegedly putting their hands down the pants of multiple individuals. The other involved a perpetrator allegedly putting their hands on someone's face in an attempt at a kiss.
One occurred at a party-affiliated event, with MPs present. The other occurred after a political event at a private residence.
One was kept quiet for almost 3months, withheld from both the police, and from the victim's parents - until one of the victims complained that they were unhappy with the support they were receiving. The other was dealt with within a week, with the alleged offender's membership being suspended by the party before the police had even notified him of a complaint being laid.

Again - both of these incidents should be condemned. But in considering "the fact", it's hard to imagine how one of these incidents might have been handled any better by the associated political party, nor any worse by the other.

I was quick to criticise Labour for their handling of the youth camp issue. (less so Ardern personally, because Party management withheld it from her) I'm certainly no fan of Simon Bridges, but if you're looking for me to criticise his, or National's handling of their incident, then I'd be asking how you think this might have been handled any more proficiently?

Rikkitic

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#2137424 30-Nov-2018 19:05

What you say is correct but what bothers me about it is the implication that there are degrees of misbehaviour. Yes, both are heinous but I don't get that one is somehow less heinous because no hands went down anyone's pants. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse and it shouldn't somehow be less awful because the abuser didn't go further than the face. What matters is how it makes the victim feel and I can't imagine the victim in this case thinking 'whew, glad he didn't go lower'.

I do agree that the actions of those in charge can be compared and if necessary criticised.

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networkn

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#2137497 30-Nov-2018 19:58

Rikkitic:

What you say is correct but what bothers me about it is the implication that there are degrees of misbehaviour. Yes, both are heinous but I don't get that one is somehow less heinous because no hands went down anyone's pants. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse and it shouldn't somehow be less awful because the abuser didn't go further than the face. What matters is how it makes the victim feel and I can't imagine the victim in this case thinking 'whew, glad he didn't go lower'.

Really?! I couldn't disagree more with you on this. I think most people believe there (and the law implicity deals with) degrees of all sorts of crimes, including sexual assault.

I could categorically state that if I was being sexually assaulted, bring groped would be FAR less unpleasant, than being penetrated. Both are horrible things to have happen, but if one happened and not the other, I would feel absolutely relieved.

Rikkitic

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#2137510 30-Nov-2018 20:35

networkn:

Really?! I couldn't disagree more with you on this. I think most people believe there (and the law implicity deals with) degrees of all sorts of crimes, including sexual assault.

I could categorically state that if I was being sexually assaulted, bring groped would be FAR less unpleasant, than being penetrated. Both are horrible things to have happen, but if one happened and not the other, I would feel absolutely relieved.

Whew. Glad he didn't go lower!

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networkn

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#2137516 30-Nov-2018 20:41

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Really?! I couldn't disagree more with you on this. I think most people believe there (and the law implicity deals with) degrees of all sorts of crimes, including sexual assault.

I could categorically state that if I was being sexually assaulted, bring groped would be FAR less unpleasant, than being penetrated. Both are horrible things to have happen, but if one happened and not the other, I would feel absolutely relieved.

Whew. Glad he didn't go lower!

Exactly!

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