North Korea and the US

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Forums › Politics › North Korea and the US

ageorge

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#272242 16-Jun-2020 10:26

Dont know about you, but my opinion of the hotbed between US and NK is its pretty dangerous right now.

Opinions do matter, and even little old NZ a forum post may somehow reach the right person somewhere (God Knows).

Thinking about all the mistrust and craziness between US NK and even South Korea, surely there is something that would work to get things to settle down.

If you are interested, how about adding your ideas at this thread see where it goes.

Since Trump and Pence appear to have no idea on how to negotiate with Asian counterparts, here goes my suggestion:

US offers to buy the nuclear stockpile of NK, with the intention of destroying each weapon received.

South Korean government analysis has put North Korea’s nuclear spending at $1.1 billion to $3.2 billion overall.

If US held out an olive leaf starting with 1 bomb/missile purchase, with caveat of nuclear inspectors to ensure NK does not build more, that IMHO would seem an honorable and possibly acceptable solution to NK, would gradually remove the nuclear threat, and provide NK much needed money and unilateral trading by the time the last weapon is sold.

Regards, Al.

Alistair Grant George

SaltyNZ

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#2505646 16-Jun-2020 10:36

Eh, NK throws around bellicose threats all the time. The only slightly new thing here is that it's sister-Kim throwing them around right now making people wonder whether brother-Kim isn't dead after all and she's cementing her power base before revealing it. But none of them are suicidal enough to actually use their weapons. Their aim is to die fat & happy, preferably of diabetes, not with their skin melting off on top of a radioactive slag pile.

Still, we could put this down as the next suggestion for "Is that the best you got, 2020?"

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wellygary

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#2505649 16-Jun-2020 10:42

If you were North Korea, why would you give up your nuclear weapons for just money.....

The power and prestige that comes from being talked about by world leaders, along with the unbelievable domestic PR value of being able to engineer a one-on-one summit with the US president every few years, is simply something money cannot buy.....

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2505651 16-Jun-2020 10:45

wellygary:

If you were North Korea, why would you give up your nuclear weapons for just money.....

The power and prestige that comes from being talked about by world leaders, along with the unbelievable domestic PR value of being able to engineer a one-on-one summit with the US president every few years, is simply something money cannot buy.....

The suggested arrangement would be progressive, take a few years during that time your above comments would apply since it would be ongoing negotiating rather than being abusive.

Anyway, pigs fly and all that...................

dt

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#2505702 16-Jun-2020 12:29

Heres a good little 12 min vid on "how NK makes money"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDvXOHjV4UM

Basically, Nukes makes them money, they keep with so they dont have to commit to any social reforms to maintain their control and the top 1% still get what they want.. that being aid packages or economic sanction relief.

They couldn't give two sh*ts about what the it would mean for the rest of the 99% if they gave them up and allowed their society to be global contributors.

The Nukes will stay until someone with a heart starts leading the country

quickymart

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#2506121 16-Jun-2020 21:40

I think a lot of the overtures Trump makes towards Kim are just for show. Of course, he would crow about his achievements of meeting with him, and blah blah blah, but what else did he actually achieve, apart from that?

elpenguino

2908 posts

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#2506434 17-Jun-2020 11:53

quickymart:

I think a lot of the overtures Trump makes towards Kim are just for show. Of course, he would crow about his achievements of meeting with him, and blah blah blah, but what else did he actually achieve, apart from that?

For all his sins, Trump has made progress with North Korean peace. In 2018 he signed a document which is an agreement to think about signing a peace treaty.

That's 60 years of progress right there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula

If I was NK and looked at the long list of countries USA has invaded (let alone bombed), even just the ones since WWII, I wouldn't be in a hurry to give up my trump card.

And if USA allies Israel and India can keep their nukes, why can't NK keep theirs?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2506496 17-Jun-2020 12:13

With Lady Kim blowing up on their side, the inter-Korean Liason Office, peace is not looking good. She seems the be the Asian version of Margaret Thatcher.

SK should win any conflict due their superior technology and large army, but NK has the Trump card in form of missiles.

Lets pray sense will prevail and Kim is sabre rattling.

Unsettled times.

SaltyNZ

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#2506497 17-Jun-2020 12:13

Trump got nothing, and walked away even from that in a fit of pique because in Trump world you can't win if the other guy doesn't lose and Kim wasn't losing. The North Koreans have agreed to 'denuclearization' every few years for decades. But the catch is that their definition of the word is not the same as yours. It includes things that simply aren't going to happen for the forseeable future, such as the US military leaving the region altogether.

In return for getting Kim to sign a document that was even more vague and less actionable than the previous one which they reneged on within months of getting their aid package (by reactivating the plutonium production reactor amongst other things), Kim got to have a photo op with the President of the United States of America thus proving to his people and to the world that he's a legit leader that can play with the big boys on the world stage.

As to your question of why shouldn't NK keep their nukes when others can keep theirs, you're asking the wrong question. The question to ask is, why can any state keep nukes? And the answer is: because you can't stop them. Joe Floridaman might think he lives under an impenetrable missile defense shield but the reality is that it is a numbers game that always favours the attacker. If the defender has 100 shots in his magazine before he needs to reload, the attacker only needs to fire 101 missiles to make sure his nuke hits. The first 100 missiles don't even need a warhead: as long as they could have one, the defender has to treat them all as if they definitely have. Or the attacker could fire 10 missiles with 10 dummy warheads each on top.

You get the point: the missiles only have to land within a couple of kilometres of their aim point to take out a city while the defender has to hit a bullet with another bullet and if he's early or late by a millisecond he misses and it's goodbye New York. The defensive weapons are orders of magnitude more expensive than the offensive ones. Or, to cut a long story short, NK's missiles might not be the world's greatest, but as someone once said, 'Quantity has a quality of its own.'

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1101

3086 posts

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#2506670 17-Jun-2020 14:22

Brutal Dictatorships want an enemy to rally the masses against .
No enemy ,no external threats , the people start looking inwards .

Iran, Ch, N Korea, even Russia use the evil US empire as a rallying cry.
So they can never get to close & friendly to the Evil US empire .

And the chance of NK giving up the Nukes is Zero. With those, they guarantee that US wont try an invasion .
Why should NK give up nukes when India Pakistan Israel dont have to , & arnt under pressure to do so.

Rikkitic

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#2506913 17-Jun-2020 19:07

quickymart:

I think a lot of the overtures Trump makes towards Kim are just for show. Of course, he would crow about his achievements of meeting with him, and blah blah blah, but what else did he actually achieve, apart from that?

He gifted Kim some pretty good photo ops.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Dingbatt

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#2506926 17-Jun-2020 19:34

Rikkitic:

quickymart:

I think a lot of the overtures Trump makes towards Kim are just for show. Of course, he would crow about his achievements of meeting with him, and blah blah blah, but what else did he actually achieve, apart from that?

He gifted Kim some pretty good photo ops.

Yep, so achieved more than Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Snr, Reagan,... But you can’t really achieve anything when the other party isn’t interested, as US administrations stretching all the way back to the Korean ceasefire have experienced.

North Korea has ‘form’ for rarking things up just before the US presidential elections.
I would be interested to know the true state of the virus in North Korea.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Handle9

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#2507025 18-Jun-2020 00:07

IMO Iran has far more chance of heating up than North Korea. There is no real incentive for the US to enter into a conflict with North Korea.

If Iran heats up, likely oil prices rise and there is a positive economic impact for the US as well as the rally round the flag nonsense.

Follow the money...

SaltyNZ

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#2507039 18-Jun-2020 07:08

Dingbatt:

Yep, so achieved more than Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Snr, Reagan,... But you can’t really achieve anything when the other party isn’t interested, as US administrations stretching all the way back to the Korean ceasefire have experienced.

I think you've got that round the wrong way. The Kims have always coveted a meeting with the President. But past Presidents made unacceptable demands (things like getting rid of the nukes or sweeping political reforms) as preconditions for doing so.

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