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Rikkitic

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#275680 3-Sep-2020 14:52
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National seems to be splashing a lot of money promises around. The current RNZ front page shows 4.8 billion for education, five more years of the Tiwai Pt. smelter, and extra support for new parents. I am not criticising any of these things, but I do wonder how they are supposed to be paid for if Covid 19 has already plunged the country into debt that future generations will have to carry. Usually Labour is the one accused of spending money the country doesn't have. So how does National plan to pay for its promises? This is a genuine question. I really don't understand how major new spending can be undertaken if we are already deeply in debt because of Covid 19. To be clear, I don't object to the current measures to save jobs. But doesn't that mean future belt-tightening?

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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quickymart
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  #2556436 3-Sep-2020 14:57
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Raising taxes?


Rikkitic

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  #2556440 3-Sep-2020 15:01
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quickymart:

 

Raising taxes?

 

 

National? Surely you jest!





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


ezbee
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  #2556446 3-Sep-2020 15:20
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There is nothing like making sure you have a strong negotiating position with pushovers like Rio Tinto.

 

Well former PM Jim Bolger back in July was saying we need to review our attitude to Taxes.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/former-pm-jim-bolger-backs-calls-for-tax-on-rich/ar-BB16HSER

 

Then the open letter from Bolger, Tindal and others.
https://www.millionairesforhumanity.com/press/former-prime-minister-jim-bolger-backs-letter-calling-for-tax-on-rich

 

"The tax system is totally unbalanced," Bolger says, "and the multibillionaires, and the billionaires, and the millionaires are all not paying their fair share of taxes."

 

""  
The letter says the wealth gap can't be can't be narrowed by charity, no matter how generous the rich are.
"You can't run a country club on everyone paying whatever they feel like and you can't run a country that way either it just doesn't work," says Pearl.
""

 

After all fans of Sweden know that it has second highest Tax in Europe , so if you want to emulate them :-) 

 

25% Vat ( Some food etc exemptions ) 
Local Income Tax 29.2% to 35.2% depending on Municipality above 20K Kronor (3.5K NZD ) , 
Plus National Tax  20% above 490K krona ( 85K NZD ), so Marginal total of 49.2 to 55.2%
Plus National Tax  25% above 689K Krona ( 120K NZD ), so Marginal total of 54.2 to 60.2%
but wait theres more .....
Plus 7% in pension contribution, employer 31% on top of employees salary.
Plus 30% Capital gains Tax . 

 

Company Tax is lower than ours at 21.4% .

 

https://sweden.se/society/why-swedes-are-okay-with-paying-taxes/
Plus other references , may vary by a few % depending on what year websites are reporting.


wellygary
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  #2556454 3-Sep-2020 15:39
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Rikkitic:

 

National seems to be splashing a lot of money promises around. The current RNZ front page shows 4.8 billion for education, five more years of the Tiwai Pt. smelter, and extra support for new parents. I am not criticising any of these things, but I do wonder how they are supposed to be paid for if Covid 19 has already plunged the country into debt that future generations will have to carry. Usually Labour is the one accused of spending money the country doesn't have. So how does National plan to pay for its promises? This is a genuine question. I really don't understand how major new spending can be undertaken if we are already deeply in debt because of Covid 19. To be clear, I don't object to the current measures to save jobs. But doesn't that mean future belt-tightening?

 

 

Eventually they will have to put out costed policy,

 

But that will not happen until the PREFU is released by the Government so they can see what is expected in future taxes, and what policies from the government are baked into those that they can cut out...

 

Most likely they will simply add a few % onto the growth forecasts and say this will result in high taxation (GST and income tax drag all increase when the economy grows faster)

 

Any spending in 2021 that looked like it came out of NZ first will be the first on the block to be "re purposed"

 

 


Handle9
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  #2556456 3-Sep-2020 15:41
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Judith Collins was quite clear. "Growth."

And the magic money tree.

Fred99
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  #2556466 3-Sep-2020 16:09
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Handle9: Judith Collins was quite clear. "Growth."

And the magic money tree.

 

You forgot the part about blaming someone else.  Not now - because rich people, companies need bailing out too.  Later you can pretend that most of the covid relief money was wasted on cigarettes and booze.

 

"Growth" can be achieved by exchanging property between buyers/sellers like a ping-pong ball that increases in value 20% every time it goes over the net.


Handle9
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  #2556511 3-Sep-2020 16:13
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Fred99:

 

Handle9: Judith Collins was quite clear. "Growth."

And the magic money tree.

 

"Growth" can be achieved by exchanging property between buyers/sellers like a ping-pong ball that increases in value 20% every time it goes over the net.

 

 

That doesn't help the tax take as you can't get at the capital gains if there is a veneer of buying the property as a rental or you live in it.

 

The magic money tree is more likely.


 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #2556562 3-Sep-2020 16:28
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Handle9:

 

That doesn't help the tax take as you can't get at the capital gains if there is a veneer of buying the property as a rental or you live in it.

 

The magic money tree is more likely.

 

 

It indirectly helps the tax take as it creates an illusion of wealth that encourages people to spend.

 

But sure - the magic money tree as well.

 

TBH, so long as government debt as % of GDP ends up being around what's been forecast, it shouldn't be too bad.

 

Biggest risk is what happens when the US decides to stop the printing presses.   


Handle9
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  #2556571 3-Sep-2020 16:35
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wellygary:

 

Rikkitic:

 

National seems to be splashing a lot of money promises around. The current RNZ front page shows 4.8 billion for education, five more years of the Tiwai Pt. smelter, and extra support for new parents. I am not criticising any of these things, but I do wonder how they are supposed to be paid for if Covid 19 has already plunged the country into debt that future generations will have to carry. Usually Labour is the one accused of spending money the country doesn't have. So how does National plan to pay for its promises? This is a genuine question. I really don't understand how major new spending can be undertaken if we are already deeply in debt because of Covid 19. To be clear, I don't object to the current measures to save jobs. But doesn't that mean future belt-tightening?

 

 

Eventually they will have to put out costed policy,

 

But that will not happen until the PREFU is released by the Government so they can see what is expected in future taxes, and what policies from the government are baked into those that they can cut out...

 

Most likely they will simply add a few % onto the growth forecasts and say this will result in high taxation (GST and income tax drag all increase when the economy grows faster)

 

Any spending in 2021 that looked like it came out of NZ first will be the first on the block to be "re purposed"

 

 

Has National confirmed they will release an alternative budget? Labour released theirs in 2017 months before PREFU. I can understand them delaying due to the changes brought on by the current situation but I haven't read that they will announce fully costed plan like Labour did in 2017 (and then ended up in the "fiscal hole"sideshow).


martyyn
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  #2556606 3-Sep-2020 18:20
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History would suggest cuts to education, health and social services.

Handle9
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  #2559759 7-Sep-2020 17:09
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If this quote is accurate then we are getting into Monty Python territory.

 

Goldsmith said a National government wouldn't cut services, but wouldn't fund them at the level the current government does.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425417/goldsmith-says-private-sector-key-to-job-creation

 

 


GV27
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  #2560022 8-Sep-2020 07:09
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We haven't seen any real tax policies yet, but we will eventually. Both parties have a lot to answer for. We have a bad habit of leaving our tax settings and repayment/abatement thresholds alone for years and years grabbing the inflation-driving component of wage growth and I was hoping to see this finally addressed, but Covid19 has put an end to that.  


GV27
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  #2560483 8-Sep-2020 19:16
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Seems like we are getting a tax policy tomorrow from Labour. 


Noig
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  #2560576 9-Sep-2020 05:16
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Handle9: Judith Collins was quite clear. "Growth."

And the magic money tree.

+ Borrowing from the next generations. Which is already happening on a large scale due to covid-19.

MikeAqua
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  #2560607 9-Sep-2020 08:39
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The same place as the govt's current expenditure - borrowing.

 

It's not desirable under normal circumstances, but the economy is in a lot of trouble.  After the election we will see the pain deferral policies end and the true extent of economic damage will be revealed.





Mike


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