Abuse of children in care

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Rikkitic

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#280452 16-Dec-2020 08:46

This important and outrageous topic should not really be confined to the Politics forum, but this is probably where the FUG says it should go. I find this abhorrent and almost beyond belief. Apparently New Zealand children in care were seen as a meat market by those who were supposed to look after them. This seems to be an institutional issue rather than strictly a church one, but the churches bear a greater burden of shame because of all their holier-than-thou mealy-mouthed prattling about morals and sin. Clearly these organisations drew child molesters like a magnet. What a load of hypocritical prayer pretenders! All religious properties should be sold at auction and the proceeds given to their victims!

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OldGeek

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#2623107 17-Dec-2020 08:44

It is equally important to retain a sense of proportion when such an outrage as this is exposed. From memory only two major "faith-based" organisations were involved so maligning all such churches is an over-reaction. Much of the offending is reportedly in state-owned institutions.

I expect that there will be a measured response to this from the Government in the coming months, however it is possible that there will be a delay based on the 'distraction' excuse and COVID19.

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Rikkitic

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#2623112 17-Dec-2020 08:55

Churches are always claiming a special position in society because they represent the voice of god. I think it is time to squelch that once and for all. Churches should be treated like any other social club. A random stranger is not automatically more trustworthy just because he or she happens to wear a dog collar.

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Batman

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#2623140 17-Dec-2020 10:26

Rikkitic:
[b] Churches are always claiming a special position in society because they represent the voice of god. [/b] I think it is time to squelch that once and for all. Churches should be treated like any other social club. A random stranger is not automatically more trustworthy just because he or she happens to wear a dog collar.

Are you sure? I don't recall reading anything like that on stuff or herald, outside of youtube sermons

Batman

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#2623150 17-Dec-2020 10:30

Rikkitic:
This important and outrageous topic should not really be confined to the Politics forum, but this is probably where the FUG says it should go. I find this abhorrent and almost beyond belief. Apparently New Zealand children in care were seen as a meat market by those who were supposed to look after them. This seems to be an institutional issue rather than strictly a church one, but the churches bear a greater burden of shame because of all their holier-than-thou mealy-mouthed prattling about morals and sin. Clearly these organisations drew child molesters like a magnet. What a load of hypocritical prayer pretenders! All religious properties should be sold at auction and the proceeds given to their victims!

Careful these sort of generalizations are probably the ideas that give rise to how genocides begin, or why black lives in USA are targeted for example

In fact this is exactly what's happening in Africa. Black people are killing white people at random and taking their properties for generalized past sins of previous white generations.

Fred99

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#2623175 17-Dec-2020 11:31

Batman:

In fact this is exactly what's happening in Africa. Black people are killing white people at random and taking their properties for generalized past sins of previous white generations.

That comment - as a headline - may not be an accurate representation of the truth, and is something that's been widely misrepresented by racist alt-right groups as "proof" of a general "white genocide" conspiracy theory.

This wikipedia page gives more (and unbiased / less sensational) information on the situation in South Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks

Fred99

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#2623184 17-Dec-2020 11:43

OldGeek:

It is equally important to retain a sense of proportion when such an outrage as this is exposed. From memory only two major "faith-based" organisations were involved so maligning all such churches is an over-reaction. Much of the offending is reportedly in state-owned institutions.

I expect that there will be a measured response to this from the Government in the coming months, however it is possible that there will be a delay based on the 'distraction' excuse and COVID19.

I don't disagree about sense of proportion, but this is historical abuse in a time when the general church influence on social mores and consequent legislation based on "morality" extended much further than it does today. So the organisations may not have been "faith based" in terms of being run by churches, but being a solo mum, getting a divorce despite needing to escape an abusive / violent relationship etc etc was "frowned upon" by probably a majority. You became very much a "second class citizen" and subject to scorn / shunning / shaming, this was very much based on church-led interpretation of morality - despite being the pretty much the exact opposite of "what Jesus may have done".

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Rikkitic

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#2623266 17-Dec-2020 13:15

Batman:Careful these sort of generalizations are probably the ideas that give rise to how genocides begin, or why black lives in USA are targeted for example

In fact this is exactly what's happening in Africa. Black people are killing white people at random and taking their properties for generalized past sins of previous white generations.

I don't much appreciate the implications you are making here. Genocides begin when groups of people are dehumanised for their ethnicity, race, culture, tribe, or other characteristics, and resentment against them for real or imagined transgressions is weaponised.

I have no problem with those who adhere to any religious beliefs. They should be treated exactly like everyone else. My complaint is that they are not, because they claim special status because of those beliefs. This is much less egregious than it used to be, though we still have prayers in Parliament for no good reason I can think of.

Speaking in the same breath of children systematically abused by religious institutions and white farmers being murdered and displaced in South Africa, is frankly disgusting. The two have nothing to do with each other and your trying to bring them together in some twisted way to score a point against me is reprehensible. I do think the church in this country and probably every other one owes major restitution to children who have been abused in their care. In view of their behaviour over many years, it would not be unjust if church property was seized and sold for this purpose. That is not the same as saying church members should lose their homes and be strung up.

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