Derek Chauvin's Convictions & the US Legal System

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Paul1977

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#284440 22-Apr-2021 11:30

Rightly convicted and now awaiting sentencing.

But the US system (or maybe just Minnesota) is confusing; in that he was charged and convicted on 2 murder counts and 1 manslaughter count, over a single death.

That just seems like a really weird system, and in some circumstances could surely lead to inappropriately long sentencing if people can be essentially convicted of the same crime multiple times.

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#2696581 22-Apr-2021 11:37

However, it is also reported that he might only be sentenced on the most serious one... the 2nd degree murder one.

Batman

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#2696583 22-Apr-2021 11:44

the right/far right are saying the trial had too much exposure and the jury were not hidden from public and had no choice but to convict.

the far right are saying that without the exposure and the non hidden jury he won't be convicted beyond reasonable doubt on the first 2 and 50-50 on the 3rd degree

i choked on my food but it is how it goes over there

Paul1977

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#2696587 22-Apr-2021 11:54

frankv:

However, it is also reported that he might only be sentenced on the most serious one... the 2nd degree murder one.

That might be common (I don't know), but I suspect they'll do all three to be served concurrently because of the high profile nature and public sentiment.

Still seems like a "let's throw everything at the accused and see what sticks" system though. Shouldn't they have to pick one and then the onus is on the prosecutor to prove it?

wellygary

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#2696588 22-Apr-2021 11:55

frankv:

However, it is also reported that he might only be sentenced on the most serious one... the 2nd degree murder one.

I heard an interview where it was mentioned that Minnesota has concurrent sentencing ( like we do in NZ) so the penalty for the the most severe of the charges would likely become the effective sentence.

From what I can work out, some states in the US have consecutive sentencing, and others have a mix with consecutive sentencing allowed for specific offences... But in this state and for these convictions its concurrent...

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#2696590 22-Apr-2021 11:57

original police statement here

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/minneapolis-police-george-floyd-death/index.html

without bystander video nothing would have happened

Paul1977

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#2696592 22-Apr-2021 12:00

Batman:

the right/far right are saying the trial had too much exposure and the jury were not hidden from public and had no choice but to convict.

the far right are saying that without the exposure and the non hidden jury he won't be convicted beyond reasonable doubt on the first 2 and 50-50 on the 3rd degree

i choked on my food but it is how it goes over there

The far right say a lot of things. It clearly met the criteria for unintentional second degree murder.

My question isn't about him specifically, but more in general if it's a fair system to be able to try someone for multiple "versions" of a single crime?

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Fred99

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#2696593 22-Apr-2021 12:05

The Australian news satire site The Betoota Advocate has put things remarkably succinctly in a couple of headlines:

Murderer Who Got Caught Committing Murder On Video Found Guilty Of Murder

“Well Thank Goodness That’s All Over!” Says White America

The latter headline sad - but probably true.

Paul1977

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#2696594 22-Apr-2021 12:06

wellygary:

I heard an interview where it was mentioned that Minnesota has concurrent sentencing...

From what I'm reading Minnesota have consecutive and concurrent, with guidelines for when each can be done. I'm not sure what the guidelines are, but most articles I'm reading seem to indicate it will be at the judges discretion.

Fred99

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#2696619 22-Apr-2021 12:18

Paul1977:

My question isn't about him specifically, but more in general if it's a fair system to be able to try someone for multiple "versions" of a single crime?

The US system with "degrees" of murder and manslaughter, then I don't see what's "unfair". It would have been unfair if he'd been acquitted of the most serious charge if that was the only charge laid.

What's probably not fair with the US system at the moment is that where certain well known crooks with masses of evidence against them should be locked up for what they've done over the past few years in particular, but they'll be able to evade prosecution because any jury will be so divided along partisan political lines that there's no chance at all of a unanimous verdict, so no chance they'll face any criminal court where the defendant has an absolute right to demand a jury trial. Supporters will consider this lack of charges and conviction as "proof of innocence" and/or "witch hunts" and these truly terrible people may return.

Dingbatt

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#2696743 22-Apr-2021 16:02

Fred99:

What's probably not fair with the US system at the moment is that where certain well known crooks with masses of evidence against them should be locked up for what they've done over the past few years in particular, but they'll be able to evade prosecution because any jury will be so divided along partisan political lines that there's no chance at all of a unanimous verdict, so no chance they'll face any criminal court where the defendant has an absolute right to demand a jury trial. Supporters will consider this lack of charges and conviction as "proof of innocence" and/or "witch hunts" and these truly terrible people may return.

But you can’t prosecute a sitting President.......

Oh, you are probably referring to the previous one,

or the one before that and his VP (and Sec of State),

or the one before that and his VP,

or the one before that and his wife........

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

gzt

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#2696885 22-Apr-2021 23:19

Batman: the right/far right are saying the trial had too much exposure and the jury were not hidden from public and had no choice but to convict.

Makes no sense to me. Most people would be more concerned about the police end of it after a guilty verdict. That's not a concern in this case because the police chief took the stand and plainly said that's not how officers in his district are trained to respond in this situation.

There may have been more I saw only parts.

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Fred99

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#2696952 23-Apr-2021 09:26

Dingbatt:
But you can’t prosecute a sitting President.......

That was never tested by SCOTUS.
Seems very unlikely that they'd agree - despite being stacked with republican appointees - the "founding fathers" wanted a liberal republic.

Batman

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#2696965 23-Apr-2021 09:58

gzt:
Batman: the right/far right are saying the trial had too much exposure and the jury were not hidden from public and had no choice but to convict.

Makes no sense to me. Most people would be more concerned about the police end of it after a guilty verdict. That's not a concern in this case because the police chief took the stand and plainly said that's not how officers in his district are trained to respond in this situation.

There may have been more I saw only parts.

I think this explains their historical point. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/22/us/why-derek-chauvin-different/index.html

Which is all the more reason why they need to change

TheMantis

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#2697158 23-Apr-2021 12:51

Paul1977:

Rightly convicted and now awaiting sentencing.

That's highly debatable.

Paul1977

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#2697175 23-Apr-2021 13:22

TheMantis:

Paul1977:

Rightly convicted and now awaiting sentencing.

That's highly debatable.

Because you think it doesn't meet the criteria of 2nd degree murder, or because you don't think he was in the wrong?

After reading Minnesota's definition of unintentional second degree murder, I actually don't see how it technically applies in this instance as there seems to be very strict criteria on when an unintentional killing can be classified as murder. But that's just my layman's interpretation.

But at the minimum he's guilty of manslaughter all day long.

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