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Rikkitic

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#288288 18-Jun-2021 14:26
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I keep seeing things in the news that seem to suggest the very foundations upon which America was built, are crumbling away. I do not hold romantic notions about America. I do not think it is the greatest nation on earth. I do not think it is free or fair. I do not think it has an unblemished history. But I do think it embodies certain ideals and in at least some important ways, has given us one of the less awful systems of government and justice in the world.

 

Now that really does seem to be falling apart. What I think has always made America work, to the extent that it has worked, has been a fundamental underlying agreement between most Americans of all political persuasions, that they had certain values in common that were worth defending. Now that no longer seems to be the case. I find this sad story in the Washington Post to be just one example of an unfortunate trend. Even different branches of the justice system are at war with each other. If US Marshals feel they can ignore the orders of a federal judge when they don't like them, the breakdown of civil society may already be beyond repair. The system only works at all because each part of it respects the authority of the other. On this path lies armed revolt, and in a country with as many guns as America has, that is a truly terrifying prospect.

 

 





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SJB

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  #2730774 18-Jun-2021 16:43
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Relevant article by the BBC's Nick Bryant. Looks like he is leaving America and the BBC which is a great shame. He produces tremendously insightful articles about the US.

 

Once the future, US now captive to its past - BBC News




gzt

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  #2730811 18-Jun-2021 18:08
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This looks like a demarcation dispute than anything serious. This particular judge wants court marshals to be vaccinated before they enter his courtroom. He's made some kind of court order for that.

The marshals don't actually work for this judge. If the judge attempts to enforce the order the marshals comply and leave the court, and must obviously take with them anyone they may be escorting. This annoys the hell out of this judge and effectively ends the court hearing.

Tldr; Marshals comply, judge doesn't like it and charges marshals with contempt.

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  #2730812 18-Jun-2021 18:10
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gzt: This looks like a demarcation dispute than anything serious. This particular judge wants court marshals to be vaccinated before they enter his courtroom. He's made some kind of court order for that.

The marshals don't actually work for this judge. If the judge attempts to enforce the order the marshals comply and leave the court, and must obviously take with them anyone they may be escorting. This annoys the hell out of this judge and effectively ends the court hearing.

Tldr; Marshals comply, judge doesn't like it.


Yip. It's not a court order enforcing the law, it's a judge enforcing a whim.



Rikkitic

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  #2730822 18-Jun-2021 18:31
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Disagree. The marshals are being dicks because they have bought into the anti-vax BS. This never would have happened in the past. It is another sign of American decay.

 

 





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Handle9
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  #2730823 18-Jun-2021 18:36
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Rikkitic:

Disagree. The marshals are being dicks because they have bought into the anti-vax BS. This never would have happened in the past. It is another sign of American decay.


 



There's no evidence of that, you are projecting your own biases.

It could just as easily be the judge is an over bearing A-hole who the Marshall's are giving the middle finger.

Rikkitic

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  #2730828 18-Jun-2021 18:45
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The  marshals are dicks! They are anti-vaxers trying to make a stupid point. They have every right to believe whatever they want to. They have zero right to bring it to work. 

 

 





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Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

gzt

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  #2730829 18-Jun-2021 18:54
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Handle9: It could just as easily be the judge is an over bearing A-hole who the Marshall's are giving the middle finger

Also.. let's not forget about marshals..

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2021/02/11/investigation-us-marshals-kill-more-people-but-face-less-scrutiny/4397533001/

ezbee
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  #2731017 19-Jun-2021 12:38
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Hmm, Crumble...

 

Apple crumble, Rhubarb crumble make your choice, Pumpkin Crumble probably ranks highly.

 

At least in America this stuff and far worse does come to the surface, unlike other places where questioning is illegal.
Places isolated from global media and internet, no empty chairs there, or reporting on leaders dodgy relatives.
Places where books 1984 and Brave New World are banned, while seemingly being used as template for future.
Hold a candle on a certain day, maybe you are incarnated the next.
Plus far far worse.

 

Anyway back to America where we can see the open ugliness and they can work to reform.
We can also see people doing that work, and yes its not easy and results may not be wholly satisfying.
Recent events show that things can change, and midterms we shall see.

 

So its progress, just not the progress we were hoping for, as fast as we hope.
We should not be too pessimistic just because in an open society we can see. 

 

That saying about freedom and continuous vigilance, its hard graft, and same for us least we go the same way.

 

There are places where there are not even crickets in the background.


Fred99
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  #2773286 6-Sep-2021 21:47
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"I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or my grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantative content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

 

 

Carl Sagan - written a quarter century ago.


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