Three Waters signup will be mandatory

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SJB

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#290203 27-Oct-2021 12:25

So the government is going to pass legislation this year forcing councils to take part in Three Waters and hand over the management of all water resources.

There will be a consultation group that will hear submissions on the subject but no doubt they will all be filed in the round filing cabinet next to the desk.

I guess the legislation is a reaction to so many councils being vehemently opposed to the proposals, as are many of their ratepayers. But then this is a democracy so when there is no viable opposition you can do what you like.

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Awrrr
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#2801958 27-Oct-2021 13:43

This is a democracy, so when people don't like what one government has done, they can vote in another one at the next election.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

JPNZ

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#2801960 27-Oct-2021 13:47

What an idiotic decision.

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#2801961 27-Oct-2021 13:53

SJB:

So the government is going to pass legislation this year forcing councils to take part in Three Waters and hand over the management of all water resources.

Unfortunately , this was inevitable.

darylblake

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#2802021 27-Oct-2021 14:29

Nah, this is rushed. And it sounds like consultation process has been ignored.

Sure there are admittedly some problems with funding in some areas and this is mainly focused on stormwater and wastewater. Drinking water however is quite manageable with the current setup.

However the approach taken in this instance is disgraceful. We are not going to have a minority group with veto power.

The issue here is the smaller councils cannot manage their infrastructure efficiently. They can't get enough income from rates etc. And then you got a lot of people on their own septic tanks etc they are not going to want to contribute to a water system like this. So they need a lot of money to bring it ups to scratch. This is really about the government wanting to borrow 160 Billion dollars from the US Federal reserve and they need the assets to secure it. This will allow for greater borrowing.
I am concerned though because the governments tend to be absolutely dreadful at efficiently spending money.

Not impressed with the result. They got told no, and this is a big middle finger from the government that we are going to do it anyway. Surely there can be a middle ground.

GV27

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#2802022 27-Oct-2021 14:31

Awesome, more control over Auckland infrastructure handed over to Wellington. How's centralisation working out for us in terms of population planning, transport, infrastructure, healthcare spending, COVID response...

I'm mighty pissed that Aucklanders have spent decades building up water assets through user-pays water through Watercare, while other parts of the country haven't had to pay for their water and push back on the idea of usage-based metering at all.

Given the population burden foisted upon Auckland in recent decades, I have zero faith that a centralised water agency will adequately provide for future growth. I'd say it's a dead cert we end up with a special levy for it though!

JPNZ

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#2802061 27-Oct-2021 15:38

From NZPCR link below

https://www.nzcpr.com/he-puapua-in-action-labours-three-waters-reform/

"In September 2012 the Maori King Tuheitia told a meeting of over 1,000 people from throughout the country that in spite of fresh water falling from the sky as rain and snow, it was owned by Maori: “We have always owned the water!”

He said “the ultimate goal for iwi is to retain management and control of water…”

Just nine years later, the Minister of Local Government Nanaia Mahuta is planning to deliver on her cousin’s goal by passing legislation that will give iwi, including her own Tainui tribe, the right to manage and control the country’s freshwater.

Minister Mahuta’s plan will result in freshwater, stormwater and wastewater assets and infrastructure owned and controlled by the country’s 67 local authorities – and paid for by generations of ratepayers – being transferred to four new regional water agencies 50:50 co-governed by iwi. Although local authorities will provide all of the assets, they will be given only 50 percent of the control. The other 50 percent will be given to local iwi.

Not only will councils effectively have control of their assets cut in half, Cabinet papers reveal an extraordinary requirement: all decisions undertaken by these new agencies “will require a super majority decision of 75 per cent”. That means no decisions can be made without the approval of iwi. In effect, iwi will have a veto right and be in control of all New Zealand water services decision-making.

In light of the introduction of co-governance and veto rights, one would be naive to think that Three Waters is anything other than a transfer of water assets to Maori – and another giant leap towards the implementation of Labour’s separatist He Puapua plan for Maori sovereignty by 2040."

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SJB

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#2802066 27-Oct-2021 15:52

Rikkitic:

This is a democracy, so when people don't like what one government has done, they can vote in another one at the next election.

Pretty depressing when, unbelievably, the alternative is worse.

Handle9

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#2802189 27-Oct-2021 18:28

GV27:

Awesome, more control over Auckland infrastructure handed over to Wellington. How's centralisation working out for us in terms of population planning, transport, infrastructure, healthcare spending, COVID response...

I'm mighty pissed that Aucklanders have spent decades building up water assets through user-pays water through Watercare, while other parts of the country haven't had to pay for their water and push back on the idea of usage-based metering at all.

Given the population burden foisted upon Auckland in recent decades, I have zero faith that a centralised water agency will adequately provide for future growth. I'd say it's a dead cert we end up with a special levy for it though!

Watercare has done such a great job managing the water quality at Auckland beaches. I guess it's unreasonable that they planned for unforseen events like rain.

SJB

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#2802190 27-Oct-2021 18:34

Handle9:

GV27:

Awesome, more control over Auckland infrastructure handed over to Wellington. How's centralisation working out for us in terms of population planning, transport, infrastructure, healthcare spending, COVID response...

I'm mighty pissed that Aucklanders have spent decades building up water assets through user-pays water through Watercare, while other parts of the country haven't had to pay for their water and push back on the idea of usage-based metering at all.

Given the population burden foisted upon Auckland in recent decades, I have zero faith that a centralised water agency will adequately provide for future growth. I'd say it's a dead cert we end up with a special levy for it though!

Watercare has done such a great job managing the water quality at Auckland beaches. I guess it's unreasonable that they planned for unforseen events like rain.

The new entities will probably just re-employ the people managing the infrastructure at the moment. Where would they get any new experienced people from?

Handle9

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#2802191 27-Oct-2021 18:38

SJB:

Handle9:

Watercare has done such a great job managing the water quality at Auckland beaches. I guess it's unreasonable that they planned for unforseen events like rain.

The new entities will probably just re-employ the people managing the infrastructure at the moment. Where would they get any new experienced people from?

The issue has been one of investment and governance not operational.

Councils are incentivised to reduce investment so defer maintenance and upgrades. The central interceptor should have happened 20 years ago but it's yet another example of NZs infrastructure deficit.

GV27

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#2802199 27-Oct-2021 19:04

Handle9:

The issue has been one of investment and governance not operational.

Councils are incentivised to reduce investment so defer maintenance and upgrades. The central interceptor should have happened 20 years ago but it's yet another example of NZs infrastructure deficit.

Hang on here, let's remember which branch of government cranked up migration over a 20 year period and blew the population of Auckland out over that time frame.

It wasn't local government.

Central Government has a pathological tendency to just play dumb when it comes to helping develop infrastructure for the population increases they control. For ministers to blame councils for not keeping up with the frantic pace set by central government is pretty on the nose.

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Handle9

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#2802201 27-Oct-2021 19:10

GV27:

Handle9:

The issue has been one of investment and governance not operational.

Councils are incentivised to reduce investment so defer maintenance and upgrades. The central interceptor should have happened 20 years ago but it's yet another example of NZs infrastructure deficit.

Hang on here, let's remember which branch of government cranked up migration over a 20 year period and blew the population of Auckland out over that time frame.

It wasn't local government.

Central Government has a pathological tendency to just play dumb when it comes to helping develop infrastructure for the population increases they control. For ministers to blame councils for not keeping up with the frantic pace set by central government is pretty on the nose.

There's any number of examples of this with councils.

They aren't going to fix these issues anytime soon - if they raise rates to pay for it they get booted out at the next election. They also are largely indebted to the eyeballs and can't easily raise money.

1101

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#2802465 28-Oct-2021 09:29

Handle9:

Watercare has done such a great job managing the water quality at Auckland beaches. I guess it's unreasonable that they planned for unforseen events like rain.

and you'd be happy to have your rates bill doubled or tripled to fix it then.
cant easily fix issues from 50+ years ago
cant magic wand infrastructure to fix the issue, at zero cost .

mclean

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#2802549 28-Oct-2021 10:18

JPNZ: "Minister Mahuta’s plan will result in freshwater, stormwater and wastewater assets and infrastructure owned and controlled by the country’s 67 local authorities – and paid for by generations of ratepayers – being transferred to four new regional water agencies 50:50 co-governed by iwi. Although local authorities will provide all of the assets, they will be given only 50 percent of the control. The other 50 percent will be given to local iwi." (Quoting Muriel Newman)

This is a bit misleading. Each Regional Representative Group will have 6 members from the mana whenua and 6 from the local authorities that have contributed assets to the entity. That means that each local authority might have at a single representative, or at most two. Most will have no representation at all.

To me, that means that individual local authorities will have zero control over the assets they (nominally) own.

SJB

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#2802560 28-Oct-2021 10:32

Who will set the water rate? If it is each of the 4 regional group does that mean the whole of South Island will have the same water rate.

And the local councils just become tax collectors for the new entities.

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