Lowering the voting age to 16?

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Forums › Politics › Lowering the voting age to 16?

Eitsop

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#302414 21-Nov-2022 18:01

I am 51, and keen for my kids to vote in next election.

But with National & Act unlikely to support this, it won't happen.

I can't understand why there isn't support? what are the reasons why people don't support?

I understand there could be family pressure, but once in the voting box they can do what they want?

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#2999450 21-Nov-2022 18:20

You need to be 18 for the following

To be conscripted into the military

To sign legally binding contracts

To get a credit card

To get married without parental/court permission

To work in the sex industry

To visit adult entertainment stores, strip clubs, see adult films.

To be imprisoned as an adult

To Gamble

To get a tattoo without parental consent

To buy Vaping products

To buy Alcohol

To stand for Parliament

To become a police officer

This demand for 16 year olds to vote is based on one issue, global climate change.

This is an attempt by the greens to use this one trick pony to get more MPs into parliament.

How can you be deemed an adult for just one thing ?

Eitsop

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#2999458 21-Nov-2022 18:44

sir1963:
To be conscripted into the military
To sign legally binding contracts
To get a credit card
To get married without parental/court permission
To work in the sex industry
To visit adult entertainment stores, strip clubs, see adult films.
To be imprisoned as an adult
To Gamble
To get a tattoo without parental consent
To buy Vaping products
To buy Alcohol
To stand for Parliament
To become a police officer

All good points for themselves... but for voting.. what are the reasons they shouldn't be allowed to vote?

At best you would 4% extra people voting.. not like they will all vote green?

Are there not positives, like teaching them to vote from young age?

sir1963

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#2999462 21-Nov-2022 18:59

Eitsop:

sir1963:
To be conscripted into the military
To sign legally binding contracts
To get a credit card
To get married without parental/court permission
To work in the sex industry
To visit adult entertainment stores, strip clubs, see adult films.
To be imprisoned as an adult
To Gamble
To get a tattoo without parental consent
To buy Vaping products
To buy Alcohol
To stand for Parliament
To become a police officer

All good points for themselves... but for voting.. what are the reasons they shouldn't be allowed to vote?

At best you would 4% extra people voting.. not like they will all vote green?

Are there not positives, like teaching them to vote from young age?

The reason not to allow them to vote is that they are not adults, even though their votes can/will impact adults.

If they are adults, then why not lower all the other R18 issues to 16 ?

They are either adults, or they are children .

But what reason is there for them to vote ?

You can tech children about the electoral system without the need to vote. We already do this with sex education, there is not "practical" involved.

Its even been shown that girls mature faster than boys, do we just let girls vote ?

The core of this 16 is to allow the Greens to capitalise on a single issue. 4% could see them gain 4 MPs.

Eitsop

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#2999468 21-Nov-2022 19:31

sir1963: The core of this 16 is to allow the Greens to capitalise on a single issue. 4% could see them gain 4 MPs.

So the reason not to let 16 year olds vote is they will vote green.. so a purely partisan/selfish reason. not right or wrong, that they shouldn't have a voice for their future?

Maybe that's why people don't vote as much, parties don't do what's right, they do what is enough to keep them in power

sir1963

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#2999472 21-Nov-2022 20:01

Eitsop:

sir1963: The core of this 16 is to allow the Greens to capitalise on a single issue. 4% could see them gain 4 MPs.

So the reason not to let 16 year olds vote is they will vote green.. so a purely partisan/selfish reason. not right or wrong, that they shouldn't have a voice for their future?

Maybe that's why people don't vote as much, parties don't do what's right, they do what is enough to keep them in power

No, its because they are not adults.

There is even a valid argument that 18 years olds are not mature enough to understand the consequences of their behaviours and should not be placed in prison with older adults.

16 year olds are children.

Rikkitic

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#2999479 21-Nov-2022 20:16

The voting age should be lowered from the other end. People over 80 cannot think straight. Pensioners are no longer productive. Don't trust anyone over 30!

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gzt

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#2999487 21-Nov-2022 20:59

sir1963: This is an attempt by the greens to use this one trick pony to get more MPs into parliament.

This current effort has been going for a few years led by young people with vastly differing political views as I understand it including National and Act.

sir1963

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#2999491 21-Nov-2022 21:14

Rikkitic:

The voting age should be lowered from the other end. People over 80 cannot think straight. Pensioners are no longer productive. Don't trust anyone over 30!

LOTS of elderly people are in full control of their faculties, those that aren't are more likely not to vote.

And I know a number of professors who are still productive in their 80's, those that aren't retire from thee work force.

Also when adults get to that stage, their rights can/are are stripped off them with things like enduring power of attorney.

We also test them for things like driving.

None of this however change the fact that 16 year olds are children.

networkn

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#2999492 21-Nov-2022 21:14

I am opposed to lowering the voting age and I'll use lowering the drinking age as an example of why.

When the drinking age was 20, there was a very small number of 20-year-olds who would supply alcohol to 18-year-olds and a very very small number of them who would supply to 16-year-olds.

When they lowered the drinking age, unsurprisingly, the numbers of 18-year-olds who would supply 16-year-olds was proportionally higher, and the number who supply 14-year-olds and below is also a lot higher. The Government, presented with those facts, ignored them in their one chance to bring the drinking age higher again.

With some exceptions, as you get older, you become more aware of the consequences of your actions and can see a wider number of factors at once. I know some very smart and responsible 16-year-olds, but I can't think of a single one who I believe can grasp enough of the country as a whole and the consequences of a particular policy or group of policies. I am sure there are some, but the number of them would be tiny as a percentage.

If they lower the voting age, they should lower the age at which children can be treated as an adult in the criminal justice system. Seems only fair that with greater power you accept some greater responsibility, right?

sir1963

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#2999493 21-Nov-2022 21:16

gzt:
sir1963: This is an attempt by the greens to use this one trick pony to get more MPs into parliament.

This current effort has been going for a few years led by young people with vastly differing political views as I understand it including National and Act.

Which still does not change the fact they are children.

But this idea is currently being pushed by the greens on a single issue.

Life and society are far more complex than a single issue.

gzt

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#2999503 21-Nov-2022 22:15

sir1963:
gzt: This current effort has been going for a few years led by young people with vastly differing political views as I understand it including National and Act.
But this idea is currently being pushed by the greens on a single issue.

I don't know where you get this idea. This latest development is as remote from the greens as you can get. Lowering the voting age has been green party policy for maybe 20 years or more. I'm not sure why you're surprised by green party support for this latest development on this issue.

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quickymart

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#2999507 21-Nov-2022 22:19

I vaguely remember something like this being floated around when I was a teenager back in the early-to-mid 90's, but I don't remember it being a Greens-specific policy.

Eitsop

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#2999511 21-Nov-2022 22:28

sir1963: But this idea is currently being pushed by the greens on a single issue. Life and society are far more complex than a single issue.

ROFL, so funny, and don't we have people voting on single issues right now?

people vote on single points eg
- Leadership personality, eg Jacinda & John Key
- vote on Tax Cuts
- vote on country vs Town
- religion
- how their family votes

Sadly people don't vote on policies, and I think its quite disingenuous of young people to have a broader opinion.

Governments are formed on 50.1% or more, and sadly alienates 49.9% of population at same time. Even worse when people say they have a mandate with 50.1%
Ideally, a mandate is 65% or more, and if we got labour and national forming a coalition we would get enduring & long lasting representation. And we get laws & policies that have long term vision

GV27

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#2999543 22-Nov-2022 07:22

Eitsop:

And we get laws & policies that have long term vision

Do we though?

Our mechanisms of accountability, both from the Govt to the electorate and the Public Service to the Govt are apparently totally stuffed.

If kids want to feel the same crushing disappointment of knowing that there's simply nothing you can do to improve the situation, no matter how well considered your vote is and who it is for, then let them IMO.

Paul1977

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#2999678 22-Nov-2022 10:48

The supreme court said it was discrimination, so why stop at 16? That's discriminating against 15 year olds isn't it?

As a 16 year old I thought I should be allowed to vote. But as a 45 year old I can see that at 16 I was an immature idiot in almost every respect.

EDIT: It's pretty widely accepted that people tend to become more conservative as they age, so lowering the voting age to 16 would benefit parties like Green and Labour more.

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