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OldGeek

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#320444 15-Aug-2025 13:17
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Interesting to get this from Hobson's Pledge: (fundraising text edited out).  Comments follow

 

"We cannot let the bullies win.

 

Our entire billboard campaign has been shut down - not by debate, not by democracy, but by intimidation.

 

Last week, we had our first Māori Wards billboard up for only a short time before the activist machine kicked into gear. Despite pulling that particular billboard down immediately upon hearing the pictured individual was upset, Te Pāti Māori and their allies swamped LUMO, the company hosting our billboards, with abuse. They posted the personal phone numbers of LUMO staff online, inviting their supporters to “make contact.” The result? Threats, harassment, and fear. 

 

It didn’t stop there. Activists began contacting LUMO’s other clients, publicly posted the addresses of the company's directors, and threatened violence and damage to property, making it impossible for LUMO to continue running the campaign. Faced with this onslaught, and very real risk to their staff's safety, they pulled out entirely.

 

That’s not healthy debate.
That’s not free speech.
That’s bullying.

 

This is the strategy Te Pāti Māori and their activists employ. They scare businesses away from dealing with anyone who dares oppose them.They cannot make the case as to why we should keep Māori Wards, so they use fear and violence to stop anyone from even discussing why they may not be needed anymore. 

 

We won’t let them win.

 

No one, not political parties, not activists, not media commentators, gets to decide how you vote. That’s your decision, in the privacy of the ballot box or post box.

 

That is why we are calling for New Zealanders to use their vote to take a stand even if they can’t voice their true feelings. We can send a message to the Government and to those who want to tear us apart: New Zealanders don’t want to be divided on race.

 

The silent majority just needs to show up and vote. 

 

And today, we launch the fightback.

 

We can’t rely on the media to tell our story. We can’t rely on the billboard companies to withstand the threats.

 

That’s why we need you, our supporters, to take the campaign into your own hands, into your communities, and onto your voting papers. 

 

Right now, we’re putting the pieces in place for the next phase of this campaign. It can’t be shut down by a handful of threats or social media pile-ons. It’s going to take time, planning and resources, but when it’s ready, it will give every New Zealander the means to push back.

 

We know we can’t rely on the media to carry our message, and we’ve seen what happens when billboard companies fold under pressure. That’s why we’re asking you, <deleted>, to help keep this campaign moving forward and our message out there.

 

If you want to send a clear message to the bullies that they won’t silence the “No” vote, the most effective thing you can do right now is help us build this next stage.

 

Every conversation is a vote of confidence in democracy itself. The bullies cannot shut down thousands of New Zealanders who decide to stand tall.

 

We are regrouping, redesigning, and we will keep this campaign going. But make no mistake, they will throw everything at us to shut it down.

 

We’ll be in touch soon with more updates from the campaign frontlines.

 

He iwi tahi tātou / We are one people,"

 

What is missing here?  Most if not all such threats are illegal but nothing has been said about complaints to the Police by the victims - not even mentioned as a collective reaction. 

 

 





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SaltyNZ
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  #3403788 15-Aug-2025 14:29
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Personally, I thought Don Brash's response to the original complaint was exemplary. They purchased a stock photo from a reputable agency, which turned out to have been taken of a random member of the public, in a public setting. So the photo was captured legally by the photographer (if morally questionably given it was going to be sold as a stock image with intent to focus on one particular woman) and it was legally acquired for use by HP.

 

Nevertheless when the person in the photo complained to HP, they immediately took it down and replaced it with a different one. So, from that perspective: good on them, they could have just told the woman to suck it up and she would not have had any recourse.

 

As to whether I agree with the campaign itself, no, I hope they are so badly obliterated in the polls that in a thousand years kiwis still use them as a cautionary tale. But I can't fault the way they handled the complaint.

 

Now, threats of violence toward the billboard company? I think we've all had ... ungenerous ... thoughts about billboards and the people who put them up just on the general principle of never being able to look somewhere without someone trying to laser an ad right into your eyeballs but I have no seen any reports of threats in the news, so I have to wonder whether these "threats" were really that serious in the first place.





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sir1963
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  #3403852 15-Aug-2025 16:17
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He iwi tahi tātou / We are one people

 

I can fix this entirely for HPs lot.

 

We can all learn Te Reo, culture, traditions etc etc etc and abandon the British/english influence on our culture.

 

 

 

We can become one people.

 

However that path I am sure is one they will fight against, they view themselves as the standard and want everyone to conform to them.

 

I hope they lose, and lose so badly that conspiracy nuts will be held in higher regard.

 

I will be voting against HP at every chance I get.


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  #3403965 15-Aug-2025 23:20
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What exactly were Hobsons Pledge thinking using a Maori esteem concept and an image of a Maori person in a basically disrespectful campaign?

It would have been totally shocking if it was AI generated. It wasn't and that's even worse.



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  #3405058 16-Aug-2025 16:27
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Hobson's Pledge are the "thugs" and "bullies" here. The billboard company was foolish to even deal with them.





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  #3405067 16-Aug-2025 17:53
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https://newsroom.co.nz/2025/08/09/the-secret-diary-of-don-brash/

 

I thought this was quite a clever satirical piece about Brash and Hobson's Pledge.


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  #3405302 18-Aug-2025 12:02
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I'm not even sure what HP actually is...not the movement - that's self-explanatory, but the actual pledge by someone named Hobson. 
I don't really want to google it in case I get sucked into a terrible void of hatred and self-loathing, but would like to know what this pledge is that these people refer to? 





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  #3405306 18-Aug-2025 12:19
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I just tried to post a reply from ChatGPT but something went horribly wrong and I deleted it. Here is another attempt with an edited version:

 

what is Hobson's pledge?
ChatGPT said:
Hobson’s Pledge is a New Zealand lobby group that advocates for what it calls “equal citizenship” — opposing policies or laws that give what it sees as special rights or recognition to Māori people based on ethnicity or ancestry.
Key facts about Hobson’s Pledge:
·    Founded: 2016
·    Prominent figurehead: Don Brash, a former leader of both the National and ACT parties
·    Name origin: Refers to Governor William Hobson, who reportedly said "He iwi tahi tātou" ("We are now one people") after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840. The group uses this phrase to promote a “one-law-for-all” philosophy.
 
What Hobson’s Pledge Stands For:
·    Opposes co-governance arrangements between Māori and the Crown
·    Rejects separate Māori wards in local government
·    Challenges the interpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi as a partnership
·    Campaigns against policies it sees as giving "preferential treatment" to Māori
 
Criticism:
·    Critics argue Hobson’s Pledge ignores historical and systemic inequalities experienced by Māori
·    Māori leaders, academics, and human rights advocates have accused the group of fueling racial division
·    Many see it as promoting a colour-blind ideology that fails to address the legacy of colonisation and breaches of the Treaty
 
Support:
·    Some New Zealanders support the group’s view that laws and public policy should not distinguish between ethnic groups
·    Its message resonates particularly with those concerned about co-governance models or the influence of iwi (tribal) structures in public decision-making
 
Bottom Line:
Hobson’s Pledge is a controversial political lobby group that plays a role in New Zealand’s ongoing debates around the Treaty of Waitangi, race relations, and constitutional recognition of Māori. It promotes a very specific, conservative interpretation of equality — one that many others argue overlooks the need for equity and the Treaty commitments made by the Crown.

 

 





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  #3405332 18-Aug-2025 13:24
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Thanks. 

So...typical "doing the right thing, we should all live as one, there's no such thing as inequality" rhetoric that you get from many groups that are actually quite racist. 





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Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

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quickymart
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  #3405385 18-Aug-2025 14:48
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I remember reading somewhere that Hobson himself never actually made such a pledge as Brash and co are trying to trot out as "fact".


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  #3405386 18-Aug-2025 14:56
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It seems to me that a full equality under the law should be the goal, but the arguments against it are usually that historical/systemic inequality hasn't been adequately addressed yet to make it feasible. Fair enough, but what has to happen to get there and how long will it take? That's a genuine question.

 

There's a strong argument to be made that many policies intended to address historic inequalities end up perpetuating the racial divide by having different rules for different races.

 

I don't know what the answer is. But what we're doing doesn't seem to be it.


sir1963
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  #3405390 18-Aug-2025 15:06
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There are those who believe that unless they can discriminate against some other group, they are being unfairly picked on.

 

White supremacists are one of these groups, as are the christian Nationalists .


 
 
 

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Rikkitic
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  #3405391 18-Aug-2025 15:08
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If full equality is ever achieved, the differences will just melt away and there will no longer be an issue. 

 

 





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  #3405398 18-Aug-2025 15:37
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Paul1977:

 

It seems to me that a full equality under the law should be the goal, but the arguments against it are usually that historical/systemic inequality hasn't been adequately addressed yet to make it feasible. Fair enough, but what has to happen to get there and how long will it take? That's a genuine question.

 

There's a strong argument to be made that many policies intended to address historic inequalities end up perpetuating the racial divide by having different rules for different races.

 

I don't know what the answer is. But what we're doing doesn't seem to be it.

 

 

 

 

It isn't just about inequality. That's definitely part of it, but also - and another thing HP deny - it is simply the fact that the Māori people never gave up their sovereignty/right to self-determination. To the extent that it is two laws for two people, it is because that is literally what the agreement was. Personally I tend to find that when Te Tiriti rights to consultation are in play the outcomes are most often better protection for the people overall against those would want to exploit everything for maximum short term cash.





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Paul1977
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  #3405401 18-Aug-2025 15:58
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SaltyNZ:

 

It isn't just about inequality. That's definitely part of it, but also - and another thing HP deny - it is simply the fact that the Māori people never gave up their sovereignty/right to self-determination. To the extent that it is two laws for two people, it is because that is literally what the agreement was. Personally I tend to find that when Te Tiriti rights to consultation are in play the outcomes are most often better protection for the people overall against those would want to exploit everything for maximum short term cash.

 

 

That means you've got a racial divide forever.


OldGeek

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  #3405403 18-Aug-2025 16:09
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The issue of Sovereignty is further complicated by the fact that Māori had no overall collective authority that could cede it.  Every tribe was a law to itself and inter-tribal disputes were settled in the time-honoured Māori way of physical confrontation.  While a number of Chiefs signed the treaty, not all did so, so it is irrational to consider Māori ceded sovereignty.

The British Government acquired colonies by migration supported by military superiority.  In that respect the Treaty of Waitangi was highly unusual and it is clear from what happened in the century that followed it, the British treated Māori as a conquered people that benefitted from being brought into a superior modern world from their stone-age Tribal civilisation.  The Treaty was about as useful as a used car seller views a warrantee they might include to get the sale.  My bet is if you could ask anyone in London that was involved with Governor Hobson how they viewed the TOW they would say it was a negotiated ceding of sovereignty to the British Crown.

 

So each side thought they were right.





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