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92 posts

Master Geek


#272533 30-Jun-2020 11:20
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Hi,

 

Just curious what sort of ISP Voyager are. 

 

Eg: Are they a reseller of others' networks? Do they have their own exchange hardware (used to be DLAM or ISAM? Conklins back in the dark ages? Now I have no idea what's new and cool) and what type is it? 

 

For Fiber, does that even matter? 

 

And what are the SLAs for business grade plans? 


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81 posts

Master Geek

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Voyager
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  #2514956 30-Jun-2020 11:27
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Heya @b0rg

 

Voyager is a standalone ISP - we have our own National network, BNGs etc.

 

Like most other ISPs, we resell Local Fiber Company (LFC) tail services - this includes Chorus, UFF, Enable, Northpower, Vector etc.
This provides your UFB, DSL, dedicated fiber services into our network.

 

The LFC's have already made the investment and are regulated to sell to all ISP's on a level playing field ... so most ISP's utilise them.

 

SLA's are based around the tail service you order - best to talk to our business team on what options are available.
Feel free to use any of the contact points noted here: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=190&topicid=271815





Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

4544 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2514957 30-Jun-2020 11:29
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Voyager have their own network. They use Chorus, UFF, Enable and Northpower fibre tails just like everyone else, but maintain their own handovers.

 

They also have their own voice network with direct interconnects to Spark.

 

My experience so far in regards to SLA's is they will more-or-less design anything you want, if you are willing to pay. What I would also add though, is their fault reporting is excellent compared with other providers - for example, as a Voyager wholesaler, we often would have an email and text message about a fault, within minutes of us even just finding out about (even for things are minor as provisioning portal issues). They are also extremely good with supplying info on what the resolution was.

 

After dealing with a number of the other players who do this wholesale stuff, Voyager has been a really good experience.

 

Edit: Sorry just to add, as VygrMonkey pointed in. Regarding SLA's on UFB, you have to actual order that service from the LFC.


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2514958 30-Jun-2020 11:29
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Pretty much every RSP in NZ is a reseller of wholesale services from Chorus or the LFCs - the only exception to this rule is the handful of customers left on legacy copper connections from those providers who deployed their own ISAM/DSLAM for UCLL services.

 

SLA for business plans is tied to the SLA offerings from Chorus and the LFC's - so you need to chat to the RSP about these.

 

 




92 posts

Master Geek


  #2514967 30-Jun-2020 11:45
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Thanks everyone!



92 posts

Master Geek


  #2515138 30-Jun-2020 15:08
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Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into their site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.

 

We currently have two circuits installed. One run by a reseller of Vodafone. The other is a dead circuit we would like to liven for redundancy, and as little overlap as possible to avoid outages where we can't simply cut over to another circuit via our switch and keep going. 


226 posts

Master Geek


  #2515145 30-Jun-2020 15:17
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b0rg:

 

Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into there site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.

 

We currently have two circuits installed. One run by a reseller of Vodafone. The other is a dead circuit we would like to liven for redundancy, and as little overlap as possible to avoid outages where we can't simply cut over to another circuit via our switch and keep going. 

 

 

You can but that would mean paying different bills and signing different contracts




92 posts

Master Geek


  #2515149 30-Jun-2020 15:25
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We currently have a Ciena box (VF) with a single LAN port. I guess some ONTs have dual ports. 

 

The 4G option is sounding like a solid backup plan. I've been looking at those. Not sure it will handle a 50 person internet heavy site.

 

Vodafone says in the event of an outage, I would have to go get it from a store. I feel like in the event their service fails, or our line is cut, having an account manager or delivery person run one over asap would earn them major respect. Also it means we're screwed if we have an outage at 6:15pm on a Friday - like we just had. 

 

Obviously wouldn't work if they had a company wide outage. But in our case it was isolated to us and the cable was fine. 


 
 
 
 


657 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Prodigi
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  #2515171 30-Jun-2020 16:18
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b0rg:

 

Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into there site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.

 

 

Only if you have multiple LFC's in your area (Chorus, Enable, UFF etc). Most areas will only have one because having multiple doesn't make economic sense (among other things). I think there are only a few edge cases where there are two?

 

You can work around most outages by having a separate RSP, but that still leaves you with physical cable cuts, OLT/ONT failures (and even if you get a second ONT there is a (small-ish) chance it will be on the same OLT) and core Chorus network issues (fairly unlikely).
If there is a wireless ISP in your area, that might be a workable option if 4G is too slow/expensive. You could bond multiple 4G connections together.

 

Alternatively, Chorus do offer diverse/multi-path fibre, but not for UFB. You're looking at DFAS then which is very expensive.

 

It all comes down to how much $ you want to throw at the problem, really! Happy to put some real prices against things if you're interested in exploring further.





Prodigi - Optimised IT Solutions
WebOps/DevOps, Managed IT, Hosting and Internet/WAN.


226 posts

Master Geek


  #2515197 30-Jun-2020 18:17
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What I said before I realised I was not answering your Question:
b0rg:

Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into there site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.

We currently have two circuits installed. One run by a reseller of Vodafone. The other is a dead circuit we would like to liven for redundancy, and as little overlap as possible to avoid outages where we can't simply cut over to another circuit via our switch and keep going. 

You can liven port 2 on the ONT with another RSP (albeit not gigabit) for Redundancy if ISP A network goes down you still have ISP B (vice versa). However if you want redundancy if there is a break in the cable, you will most likely be better with separate fibre. Possibly 4G if multiple fibre is too expensive. If your business really needs internet at all times - Sattelite.


657 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Prodigi
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  #2515200 30-Jun-2020 18:31
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halper86:

 

You can liven port 2 on the ONT with another RSP (albeit not gigabit) 

 

 

 

 

You can do multiple gigabit (i.e primary) connections on a single ONT now but they still share the total bandwidth available to the ONT, so you can't use both to their full capacity at the same time.





Prodigi - Optimised IT Solutions
WebOps/DevOps, Managed IT, Hosting and Internet/WAN.


4544 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2515220 30-Jun-2020 18:56
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b0rg:

Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into their site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.


We currently have two circuits installed. One run by a reseller of Vodafone. The other is a dead circuit we would like to liven for redundancy, and as little overlap as possible to avoid outages where we can't simply cut over to another circuit via our switch and keep going. 



So in Palmerston North we have Inspire Net who have had their own private fibres network installed for a number of years.
But like anyone, outages happen, so we have a Chorus UFB installed as well. Gives fairly comprehensive redundancy, apart from the physical limitation that generally they are in very close trenches in the footpath.

Outside of that, in "normal" situations, having UFB from one provider and VDSL from another is pretty good too... different handovers for starters, so often UFB could be down, and the VDSL still works.

551 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2515265 30-Jun-2020 19:11
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Almost all RSPs resell LFC tails like @sbiddle said.

The other exception to this is our premium Wellington and Auckland CBD customers where we (and other RSPs) sell Vital or Chorus Dark Fibre

This is usually sold along with colocating customers equipment in the exchange/datacentre

92 posts

Master Geek


  #2515270 30-Jun-2020 19:38
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danielfaulknor:

 

Only if you have multiple LFC's in your area (Chorus, Enable, UFF etc). Most areas will only have one because having multiple doesn't make economic sense (among other things). I think there are only a few edge cases where there are two?

 

You can work around most outages by having a separate RSP, but that still leaves you with physical cable cuts, OLT/ONT failures (and even if you get a second ONT there is a (small-ish) chance it will be on the same OLT) and core Chorus network issues (fairly unlikely).
If there is a wireless ISP in your area, that might be a workable option if 4G is too slow/expensive. You could bond multiple 4G connections together.

 

Alternatively, Chorus do offer diverse/multi-path fibre, but not for UFB. You're looking at DFAS then which is very expensive.

 

It all comes down to how much $ you want to throw at the problem, really! Happy to put some real prices against things if you're interested in exploring further.

 

 

Chorus have fibre networks in many areas where UFB was given to LFCs - usually greenfields. Offtopic, but in many ways Chorus have/had a competitive advantage over LFCs and others - exchange buildings everywhere, already own or lease backhaul fibre between those locations, existing relationships with/known by developers and property owners, more jobs to threaten (apparently came in handy). And now add to that fibre networks in many other LFC's patches which can be expanded at will (PONFAS or not).

 

 

 

b0rg:

 

Is it possible or common for a business to use different LFC's into their site for redundancy? I'm talking about an office of 50-100 people, in a building with maybe 5-6 similar offices.

 

We currently have two circuits installed. One run by a reseller of Vodafone. The other is a dead circuit we would like to liven for redundancy, and as little overlap as possible to avoid outages where we can't simply cut over to another circuit via our switch and keep going. 

 

 


Is the site located in a CBD? Where abouts is it? What are your requirements for bandwidth and latency? Budget?

 

In addition to what I said above, there are unlikely to be many properties that are serviced by two LFCs/Chorus.

 

LFCs do offer diversity options - but intended for dark fibre customers and don't expect it to be cheap. I don't recall what they are, but vary from diverse lead-ins, diverse path to single CO, diverse paths to multiple COs etc. Each with increasing cost and complexity, and whether they're available (anything is for the right price) depend on the network and where the site is located.

 

There may be other options like Vocus (ex FX Networks) or other networks in the area that could be extended to the property - but this will probably be dark fibre with decent provisioning costs.


226 posts

Master Geek


  #2515295 30-Jun-2020 19:54
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danielfaulknor:

halper86:


You can liven port 2 on the ONT with another RSP (albeit not gigabit) 



 


You can do multiple gigabit (i.e primary) connections on a single ONT now but they still share the total bandwidth available to the ONT, so you can't use both to their full capacity at the same time.


I guess you learn something everyday :)

551 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2515299 30-Jun-2020 20:07
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Intravix:

 

LFCs do offer diversity options - but intended for dark fibre customers and don't expect it to be cheap. I don't recall what they are, but vary from diverse lead-ins, diverse path to single CO, diverse paths to multiple COs etc. Each with increasing cost and complexity, and whether they're available (anything is for the right price) depend on the network and where the site is located.

 

 

Here in Wellington it is very common to have diversity between WN Central and CPC, Vital are actually also now based in CPC with Chorus


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