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Jase2985

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#275899 15-Sep-2020 20:46
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Im wondering if anyone else has noticed slow upload speeds to overseas destinations?

 

I am on a Fibre Max plan, and all testing was conducted via CAT6A Ethernet cable connected to the Router. Tested were conducted via the speedtest.net website in the latest version of Firefox (80.0.1) which seems to max out at about 650Mbps down and 450+Mbps up. Via the windows 10 speedtest.net app I’m able to get 900Mbps down and 450+Mbps up.

 

I noticed slow upload speeds the other day while trying to back up some large files to Amazon Drive. The servers are located in Ashburn Virginia in the USA. I was able to get a maximum of 1.4MB/s upload speed. Which is rather slow even if it’s going to the USA. I connected to my VPN and I was able to get between 15MB/s and 25MB/s which was a bit more respectable.

 

To note the VPN normally maxes out at about 350Mbps down and 400Mbps up.

 

Upload speeds are much faster via the VPN than straight to the speedtest server.

 

Is anyone else seeing slow uploads?

 

I used the 2degrees LA server, 2degrees Sydney and Pilot Ashburn Virginia as the test servers. All showed the same slow upload speed with the VPN turned off.

 

2Degrees LA

 

 

 

Pilot Ashburn Virginia

 

 


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michaelmurfy
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  #2565577 15-Sep-2020 21:12
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This appears to be a Windows problem (not scientific, just what I've found). On my PC which is a Ryzen build I, too, see slow upload to quite a few overseas destinations on 2degrees but when booted into Linux I can max out my upload in almost all cases.





Talkiet
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  #2565588 15-Sep-2020 21:57
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michaelmurfy:

 

This appears to be a Windows problem (not scientific, just what I've found). 

 

 

On the other hand, windows is perfect for me, which means it definitely can't be a windows problem.  (Not scientific, just what I've found)

 

(My argument is just as good as yours here)

 

Cheers - N

 

 





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


 
 
 
 


michaelmurfy
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  #2565593 15-Sep-2020 22:14
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@Talkiet Not sure how you consistently see great performance with Windows. Also not sure if it is perhaps because I run IPv6 also as this seems to be the only difference between us (apart from ISP) or the fact I use WSL + HyperV. Doesn't matter what router I use or even ISP, I've always found Windows to be consistently garbage. And this is on a new(ish) build Ryzen 3800X w/ 64gb of ram and Ethernet right through - same goes for the Windows install on my laptop. Same hardware on Linux (on both Desktop and Laptop) has no problems at all.





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  #2565596 15-Sep-2020 22:23
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michaelmurfy:

 

@Talkiet Not sure how you consistently see great performance with Windows. Also not sure if it is perhaps because I run IPv6 also as this seems to be the only difference between us (apart from ISP) or the fact I use WSL + HyperV. Doesn't matter what router I use or even ISP, I've always found Windows to be consistently garbage. And this is on a new(ish) build Ryzen 3800X w/ 64gb of ram and Ethernet right through - same goes for the Windows install on my laptop. Same hardware on Linux (on both Desktop and Laptop) has no problems at all.

 

 

A tradesman always blames his tools.





and


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  #2565602 15-Sep-2020 23:01
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You're just really unlucky I guess. I have ubuntu running inside HyperV on my machine here and I see the same results between linux and Windows to pretty much any server. I'm sure you are seeing the results you're seeing - but you keep asserting that the largest supplier of the most successful OS in history is "garbage" when it comes to networking - and you do it consistently. Not only doesn't it make sense that MS would let that happen, but it's not consistent with the experience of most people, nor have I ever been able to replicate "garbage" performance on windows compared to Linux on the same or similar machines.

 

In any case, you made the observation that in your experience it's Windows because when you switch to Linux it's fine.

 

I'm providing a counterpoint that when I have gone looking for performance differences between different OSes (Specifically windows10 and Ubuntu 18.04) on a variety of tests including speedtest and single thread TCP performance, I don't see a difference.

 

Cheers - N

 

 





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


michaelmurfy
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  #2565620 16-Sep-2020 01:46
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@Talkiet Now that I am not on a ferry on mobile broadband and back at my desktop computer here's some more scientific tests (well, as scientific as you can get using Speedtest)

 

I have multiple machines here. Tests taken with 0% network utilization.

 

Windows 20H2 (Insider build, Ryzen workstation, Realtek NIC):
Firefox:

 

 

Edge Chromium:

 

 

Edge Chromium - Local Speedtest:

 

 

Windows 2004 (HP Xeon Workstation, Intel NIC):
Firefox:

 

 

Edge Chromium:

 

 

Virtual machines:
Firefox (in a VM on my HPe Microserver):

 

 

Windows Firefox (Same spec VM on the same server with same storage - other VM shut down, build 2004):

 

 

And to be sure - same hardware w/ Intel NIC's, on Windows connected to a HG659, using Firefox:

 

 

To quote:

 

but you keep asserting that the largest supplier of the most successful OS in history is "garbage" when it comes to networking - and you do it consistently.

 

From the above do you understand why I would say such a thing? This is not my first rodeo and it isn't related to ISP as I have some very close friends of mine who experience this on Spark also (who see totally different within Linux). This is also what I see with several servers I have overseas where Windows for some reason experiences rather slow upload where Linux is totally fine and can practically cap my full upload speed. This has been ongoing since I've personally been on different ISP's, networking equipment and PC builds. I also keep my Windows installation rather fresh. Windows drivers can be terrible at times (especially when it comes to Networking) and the TCP implementation is different between Windows / Linux (and MacOS) where Windows is seen to be more aggressive. Windows is the only OS I've seen rubbish upstream performance which can likely be attributed to the difference in TCP congestion algorithm used. Also I argue your point on the most successful OS as Linux is the most successful Server and Router OS and is also used by many large organizations (including Google, Facebook and even Microsoft) along with many Router manufactures who themselves submit improvements to the Linux kernel project.

 

Some other reading of other users who have had this problem (including past-me):

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=236439&page_no=5#2042056

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=236439&page_no=6#2049148

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=233510&page_no=3#2041281

 

So, while I appreciate your input here what I don't appreciate is you basically outright saying I am incorrect every time I bring up "test on Linux" all based on yourself not seeing the issue on your particular setup. I've seen this multiple times on multiple computers on different builds of Windows and different network configurations along with ISP's. I do know what I am talking about. Also, doing a test under Linux is a very good way to identify issues potentially with the Windows installation where either Software, Hardware or Drivers may be causing issues with larger TCP windows.

 

And no, I have not used TCP Optimizer at-all here. Also happy to fire up both a fresh Windows VM along with a Linux VM and give remote access for you to test on if you still do not believe me. Also it doesn't matter if I use the Windows Speedtest app or Firefox. But I do consistently see Chromium based browsers at being the slowest of the bunch.

 

So to get back on topic - it is well worth repeating the test under Linux to double-check this isn't a problem with your Windows installation.





Jase2985

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  #2565626 16-Sep-2020 06:53
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michaelmurfy:

 

This appears to be a Windows problem (not scientific, just what I've found). On my PC which is a Ryzen build I, too, see slow upload to quite a few overseas destinations on 2degrees but when booted into Linux I can max out my upload in almost all cases.

 

 

I appreciate the response but im not concerned about the max numbers im concerned about the massive difference between the upload speeds im seeing with the VPN off and VPN on. i would have thought it would have been the other way round slower with the VPN.

 

Using the speedtest app to local servers i can max out the connection.

 

Just did another couple of tests in firefox and got 900/400 to spark Auckland and 900/200 to 2 degrees in Sydney so its not a windows thing. and just for consistancys sake i did a speed test to 2 degrees in sydeny with the VPN on and got 600/400.

 

 

 

My issue is the slower download speeds via the Voyager network than when using a VPN.

 

 


 
 
 
 


michaelmurfy
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  #2565632 16-Sep-2020 07:13
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@Jase2985 I see the same also on my Windows installation testing with NordVPN. I just forgot to attach those speeds to my reply. It is the same issue from what I can see. Do a test over Linux like I said and you won’t notice as much variance between the two.

Doing a test to Sydney for example will almost always max out my connection.

Seriously boot into an Ubuntu live install and test again.




Jase2985

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  #2565635 16-Sep-2020 07:20
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@michaelmurfy could you please explain how i can max my connection under windows to a local speedtest server, but when i change to an overseas server i can max the upload, but see a degradation the the download, but then put the VPN on the the download magically comes back? that does not seem like a windows problem to me.

 

the computer is capable of maxing out the connection under windows.


Jase2985

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  #2565653 16-Sep-2020 08:28
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Tried under Linux, exactly the same results.

 

Like i mentioned im concerned about the difference in speed, not the max speed im seeing.


hio77
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  #2565703 16-Sep-2020 09:39
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michaelmurfy: @Jase2985 I see the same also on my Windows installation testing with NordVPN. I just forgot to attach those speeds to my reply. It is the same issue from what I can see. Do a test over Linux like I said and you won’t notice as much variance between the two.

Doing a test to Sydney for example will almost always max out my connection.

Seriously boot into an Ubuntu live install and test again.

 

Queuing, tcp algorithm, scheduling etc makes a big difference to the sawtoothing that normally causes bad results to distant servers.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


VygrNetworkMonkey
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  #2565739 16-Sep-2020 10:40
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Heya @Jase2985

 

A key thing to note, specifically on the 2D LA test, is that we pass off to 2D in Auckland, so it's no utilising on our international transit services - as so it's unlikely to be anything on the Voyager network (especially if you can get great speeds to their AKL server).

 

I've run a few tests, (we have a number of Bitstream services dotted around the country for this purpose), to see if I can replicate the issue - but I'm not seeing any.

 

The tests to 2Degrees LA, show upload speed of 400+Mbps &  Pilot Ashburn is over 280M upstream (given it's over 200ms away, I'll take it!) ... this number are from my desk in CHC, so a bit further away too.

 

As has been pointed out, there's a lot of aspects that could contribute to a poor upload speed - have you had a check of your routers MTU/MSS? - they often something that is overlooked ... and as your VPN would be clamping before it hits the router, it could be related? (just a stab ... apologies if you've already looked at this)

 

Have you had a chance to try another router at all? - it would be worth a crack. Something of different make/model to ensure you're not replicating an issue.

 

If you fire me through your details, I can check your service over, to make sure it's all kosher.





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mdf

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  #2565757 16-Sep-2020 11:06
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This is well over my head, but just thought I'd chime in to see whether you're using IPv6 or not.

 

I was having some really weird issues in some circumstances with Voyager and IPv6 turned on. Went away when I disabled IPv6. I am entirely willing to chalk these issues up to my (in)ability to configure IPv6 correctly however.


Jase2985

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  #2565760 16-Sep-2020 11:12
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@VygrNetworkMonkey thanks for the response, i have PM'd you the ticket number

 

The problem is i go from using the VPN and good speeds to turning the VPN off and seeing under half the speed, and in some instances 1/10th the speed. nothing changes bar turning the VPN off and the tests are 20 seconds apart.

 

Those things to check, they would be applicable for both sets of tests though right? VPN on and off?

 

MTU is set at 1492, and MSS Clamping is on in the firewall settings for the WAN connection, im using a grandstream GWN7000 on the latest firmware and is more than happy with gigabit speeds locally.

 

@MDF no IPV6 but i do have a static IP address


VygrNetworkMonkey
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  #2565771 16-Sep-2020 11:21
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Thanks @Jase2985,

 

If is it an MTU/MSS issue, (and I can conclusively say it is at this stage), a VPN will clamp your MTU/MSS prior to the router - as the VPN tunnel point is on your PC, were traffic enters the VPN.I've never used a grand stream, so I'm not able to advise how the clamping work. Just make sure any MTU/MSS settings are also on the egress direction (as opposed to just ingress).

 

I would definitely recommend testing with another router - it should be the easiest thing to rule in/out the Grandstream.





Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

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