Voyager in Dunedin and latency

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lkh

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#302659 9-Dec-2022 21:06

Hi all, hoping someone can share their experiences or offer some insights. This isn't really a big problem, I'm just interested in understanding it all a bit better.

I work in 3D animation for film/tv etc and so deal with a lot of data - which my 900/500 Voyager fibre has been amazing for (...maybe Voyager should offer hyperfibre). More recently I have been experimenting with using PCoIP/Teradici and Parsec to remote into my workstation when I am away from home (usually somewhere in Southland or Otago) and work. This has been going really well but lower latency is always better in this situation and so I have been looking at co-locating a workstation in a data center just south of Dunedin. I ran traceroute to get an idea of what the latency might be and was surprised by what I saw:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms XXXXXX.local.lan [192.XXX.X.X]
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms lo-vprn-100.br1.chc.vygr.net [114.23.98.XXX]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms ae-0-337.edge01.chc.vygr.net [114.23.15.226]
4 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms et-0-0-1-0.core01.chc.vygr.net [43.240.33.64]
5 8 ms 9 ms 6 ms et-0-0-0-0.edge02.chc.vygr.net [43.240.33.69]
6 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms as9790.chc.ix.nz [103.94.93.3]
7 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms default-rdns.vocus.co.nz [131.203.35.46]
8 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms default-rdns.vocus.co.nz [131.203.35.45]
9 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms mail-gateway.XXXXXX.co.nz [103.XX.XXX.XX]

Now I realise 32ms probably isn't that bad, but I had hoped it might be better. And if those domains are what I think they are, does it mean that the route was up to Christchurch and then across to a Vocus DNS server before heading back south?

Using speedtest I don't seem to get anything less than 20ms for a range of different servers. I have no idea if that is normal for Dunedin. I'm doing this on a fibre 10GbE network with a decent pfSense router so am assuming the issue isn't on my end - but I could be wrong.

So I guess what I am asking is:

- what sort of latency do people get down here?
- is there anything I can do to improve this?
- would I be better off on a Vocus ISP if I went for the co-location? (this is not a Voyager burn, I've been really impressed with the service so far)

Thanks
Lindsay

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#3007928 9-Dec-2022 21:15

Looks like Voyager might be tail-extending you to Christchurch, your first hop, then it has to head back down to Dunedin on Vocus.

If Vocus have a Dunedin handover (I would assume they do) you will probably see better latency, or you could colo in Christchurch which will get you (marginally) better latency to the rest of the internet, if you don't think you'll need to get your hands on your PC that often.

Super curious who has the DC south of Dunedin too.

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amanzi

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#3007932 9-Dec-2022 21:26

Try logging a call with Voyager - they are usually keen to investigate and fix these sorts of things. From Wellington, I can ping Sydney in just under 40ms, so I wouldn't expect any local addresses to be anywhere close to that. The last hop in your traceroute (131.203.35.45) pings in just under 16ms for me.

michaelmurfy

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#3007935 9-Dec-2022 21:40

@VygrNetworkMonkey one for you.

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lkh

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3007977 10-Dec-2022 08:23

Thanks everyone that's really interesting.

@VygrNetworkMonkey Who would I contact about this?

The datacenter south of Dunedin is Earthlight, near Mosgiel. I'm also looking forward to the Azure DC near Invercargill, will be great for on-demand rendering.

Lindsay

Jase2985

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#3007979 10-Dec-2022 08:27

its curious that there is a big latency here

5 8 ms 9 ms 6 ms et-0-0-0-0.edge02.chc.vygr.net [43.240.33.69]
6 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms as9790.chc.ix.nz [103.94.93.3]

both hops appear to be in Christchurch

yitz

2052 posts

Uber Geek

#3008274 10-Dec-2022 20:58

Jase2985:

its curious that there is a big latency here

Most likely asymmetric routing, OP could have a static IP which depending on how is handled on the Voyager network might have to route via Auckland. That was how Telecom handled their local peering anyway, to prevent others 'abusing' their network for free national transit. Or it could be a Vocus policy, or how the destination network (AS56304) has set up their routing (OP should request a traceroute to his Voyager IP from the datacentre provider).

It's probably easier and most straightforward in this case just to pick a provider, and have both end points on the same network rather than rely on peering.

VygrNetworkMonkey

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#3008282 10-Dec-2022 21:42

Heya @lkh

While Voyager has a PoP in Dunedin, there are no interconnects in this region to pass off your traffic to other providers.
Dunedin is 'light' in Internet Exchanges (IX) peers, making Christchurch the first place to connect with other ISPs - which is currently what is happening with your traffic from Voyager to Vocus.

As connectivity and IX options are created, and become widely supported by ISPs in the Dunedin region (hint hint ix.nz!), we will definitely interconnect!

The new Datagrid Datacenter near Invercargill along with the new Hawaiki Nui cable to Melbourne will certainly change the landscape for connectivity in the Southland region - Voyager intends to be a part of it, and will expand connectivity as it becomes more viable (ie: more ISP's connect within the region).

Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

VygrNetworkMonkey

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#3008284 10-Dec-2022 21:56

Jase2985:

its curious that there is a big latency here

5 8 ms 9 ms 6 ms et-0-0-0-0.edge02.chc.vygr.net [43.240.33.69]
6 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms as9790.chc.ix.nz [103.94.93.3]

both hops appear to be in Christchurch

I think @yitz is bang on here - it looks like asymmetric routing on the Vocus side, with the

If I ping the address in hop 6 (103.94.93.3) from Edge02.chc (hop 5) .. it's roughly 1-2ms.

x@edge02.chc> ping 103.94.93.3
PING 103.94.93.3 (103.94.93.3): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=1.249 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.215 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1.795 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.915 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=1.257 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=1.219 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.904 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=1.222 ms
64 bytes from 103.94.93.3: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=0.978 ms
^C
--- 103.94.93.3 ping statistics ---
9 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.904/1.195/1.795/0.254 ms

This means the Vocus router (103.94.93.3) sends traffic via a longer path to get back to you on the Voyager network, rather than back across the CHC path. Vocus is undergoing a pretty large network migration (with the 2D network) currently, so this may be a temporary side effect.

In theory, it should be any more than 16-17-ish ms for your path, if pathed optimally.

Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

lkh

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3008778 11-Dec-2022 21:59

Thanks so much everyone for your replies. I've learnt a lot about how these things work.

@VygrNetworkMonkey Appreciate the insight, hopefully Dunedin gets some improved peering in the future then. I hadn't realised there was a new cable on the way - great stuff.

@yitz I do indeed have a static IP so you might be right.

All in all 32ms isn't too bad really, makes for ~60ms round trip with 5-10ms to hardware encode a 4:4:4 4K image which is really pretty incredible really. Far better than what I've had on offer in the UK or Aus.

Lindsay

concordnz

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EMT (R)

#3008889 12-Dec-2022 11:14

@Lkh
Mind if I sedgway and ask what software you use to do your 3D animation & Rendering?

lkh

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3008908 12-Dec-2022 11:43

@concordnz Maxon Cinema 4D and SideFX Houdini for the modelling/animating/simulation side of things. And then mainly Redshift Render, although occasionally Octane Render or Vray. Deadline for render management, cloud rendering etc.

concordnz

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EMT (R)

#3008915 12-Dec-2022 12:32

@lkh Nice!
Have you tried the Octane Rndr Network, for cloud rendering, it appears to be both low cost, and fast.

lkh

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3009006 12-Dec-2022 14:08

@concordnz No I haven't tried it, have you? It does look pretty good, seems like it would be simple to use. I didn't realise it was cheap - that's a real bonus. I'd need to have a good look through the whitepaper, I'm sure it's very secure but I often have quite strict NDA's and I wonder if using a network like that might violate them.

concordnz

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EMT (R)

#3009076 12-Dec-2022 16:06

I've been involved with the Rndr Network for about 2 years providing Node Hardware and working with the team to work out bugs.
Its got a lot more stable over that timeframe, and easier to use, though I do believe it's still recommended to keep your export ORBX files under 100gb.

They have a strong focus on data security and end to end encryption and this has gained the confidence of a number of movie studios to utilise the service without hesitation. Also marketing and advertising agencies.
Nothing is visable from a node perspective, and it is all processed in an 'encrypted container'

It has been used quite extensively by the Roddenbury Foundation to for their digitisation of Star Trek material and Archival creation - as you can imagine they have a huge volume of material to digitise. And are security/intellectual property focused.

From what I can tell it is about 1/8th of the cost of 'traditional' cloud rendering.

We can start a new thread or go to DM if you wish to discuss further. - Do they have a 3D forum here? :)
(I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic)
:-)

concordnz

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EMT (R)

#3009079 12-Dec-2022 16:09

Maxon 4D integration is supposed to be happening in the next 12-24 months.

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