Electricians Invoice - Charged for time off site

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › Electricians Invoice - Charged for time off site

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#3404026 16-Aug-2025 12:38

eracode:

What do you suggest the OP should do?

either suck it up or if it really bothers them take it up with consumer law etc.

what really annoys me with this sort of thing is often its the dodgy rip off crowds who survive the downturns and the really good people go bust.

tweake

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#3404027 16-Aug-2025 12:41

Xile:

Thanks, that was my gut feeling. I have to say I was surprised by the responses to the contrary.

i think people are getting mixed up with "set price" jobs. quotes and estimates are not set price and people only need to pay for the job that gets done up to the limit of the quote or within reason on estimates.

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#3404036 16-Aug-2025 13:27

Xile:

Thanks, that was my gut feeling. I have to say I was surprised by the responses to the contrary.

So you get a bunch of people saying what are you on about, and one which agrees with you, and which do you latch on to?

Did you get charged for the original time to quote? Personally I think their change is more than reasonable. No wonder its hard to get trades to sort small jobs if they have to deal with this kind of BS - really not worth their time.

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#3404037 16-Aug-2025 13:33

tweake:

Xile:

Thanks, that was my gut feeling. I have to say I was surprised by the responses to the contrary.

i think people are getting mixed up with "set price" jobs. quotes and estimates are not set price and people only need to pay for the job that gets done up to the limit of the quote or within reason on estimates.

A quoted job is in fact a fixed lump sum contract for a scope of work. Unless the contractor is engaged on a time and materials basis then that’s the price the client is obligated to pay to deliver the scope. If it takes longer the contractor loses, if it takes less time the contractor wins.

An estimate is just that, an estimate. There is an obligation that an estimate be reasonable but it is clear that it’s a time and materials contract.

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#3404040 16-Aug-2025 13:43

tweake:

[ex tradie here. not sure on current law but quotes are a maximum price. if the job was less then thats what you pay. you pay a reasonable price. in practice customer pays whatever the job cost up to the maximum price listed in the quote.

prep time, travel time (unless billed separately), admin/paperwork time etc is all built into the labor and part markup (and sparkies is the highest in the building industry). that is not done as a separate cost. so they are blatantly lying. in this case what they are saying is your paying for that twice and it was not itemized in the quote.

so overall its a scam. you should have paid the 2.5 hrs time, not 3.5hrs. they basically overquoted to give you a "discount" while overcharging you. just how legal it is you would have to ask a lawyer.

i'm not surprised, given current trading conditions.

This is almost entirely incorrect and has no legal basis.

It gets really tiresome having things described as a scam or a con when they aren’t.

toejam316

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#3404043 16-Aug-2025 13:58

Bloke was on site 2.5 hours. He charged you an extra hour, and that extra hour would include going and collecting the stuff for your job, as well as any other admin stuff related to the job, billing, etc.

Would it make more sense to have a separate line for admin work? Maybe, but when you're a small tradie you don't want to complicate stuff like billing when it isn't needed.

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#3404045 16-Aug-2025 13:59

Handle9:

A quoted job is in fact a fixed lump sum contract for a scope of work. Unless the contractor is engaged on a time and materials basis then that’s the price the client is obligated to pay to deliver the scope. If it takes longer the contractor loses, if it takes less time the contractor wins.

no, not in nz its not. what your describing is a fixed price contract. pretty common in commercial work, which i did a bit of. also common in sub-contracting. by nz consumer law a quoted job is a maximum price limit. its not a minimum price limit or a fixed price. estimates even more so.

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#3404046 16-Aug-2025 14:03

tweake:

Handle9:

A quoted job is in fact a fixed lump sum contract for a scope of work. Unless the contractor is engaged on a time and materials basis then that’s the price the client is obligated to pay to deliver the scope. If it takes longer the contractor loses, if it takes less time the contractor wins.

no, not in nz its not. what your describing is a fixed price contract. pretty common in commercial work, which i did a bit of. also common in sub-contracting. by nz consumer law a quoted job is a maximum price limit. its not a minimum price limit or a fixed price. estimates even more so.

Citation required. Unless otherwise scheduled a quote is a fixed price contract.

tweake

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#3404047 16-Aug-2025 14:03

toejam316:

Bloke was on site 2.5 hours. He charged you an extra hour, and that extra hour would include going and collecting the stuff for your job, as well as any other admin stuff related to the job, billing, etc.

Would it make more sense to have a separate line for admin work? Maybe, but when you're a small tradie you don't want to complicate stuff like billing when it isn't needed.

all that admin work, part collecting, down time, courier cost, rent, overheads, etc is all priced into the hourly rate and product markup. i have never heard of any tradie pricing it out separately. that would be a nitemare to do.

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#3404050 16-Aug-2025 14:13

This is the Commerce Commisions position on quotes vs estimates:

https://comcom.govt.nz/business/dealing-with-typical-situations/quotes,-estimates-and-invoicing

This is MBIEs position on quotes vs estimates:

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/guide-to-buying-smart/quotes-and-estimates

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#3405047 16-Aug-2025 14:33

To actually answer OPs question around paying for time offsite, the only correct answer is, it depends.

Generally if you are using a contractor for a full day of work you wouldn't pay for time offsite as you are fully consuming their available time for the day. Where it gets a bit messy is jobs like this which is only part of the day. If they are travelling to your job from another job someone has to pay for that time otherwise they wouldn't take on a job for a couple of hours. There's also the inevitable things like having to go to the wholesaler to get parts etc.

There are quite a lot of ways to charge for part days, they could charge travel time, they could add a P&G charge for partial days or they can bundle it in with overall labour charge.

Whether or not it's reasonable depends on a range of factors including how long it took to get to site. IME half an hour of admin and half an hour of travel time for a part day would be somewhat reasonable but it really depends on the circumstances. There is no fixed practice so it really comes down to the "reasonable man test."

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#3405065 16-Aug-2025 17:35

It's also mentioned that the sparkie visited the site to allow them to do the estimate. Somebody has to pay for this, despite what people may think nothing is free.

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#3405068 16-Aug-2025 17:58

larknz:

It's also mentioned that the sparkie visited the site to allow them to do the estimate. Somebody has to pay for this, despite what people may think nothing is free.

That’s a cost to the business. It’s the difference between having your own business and being an employee.

gzt

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#3405073 16-Aug-2025 18:20

I see the item "Napier Mileage". Does that indicate a drive from Hastings or similar, and time of day?

larknz

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#3405078 16-Aug-2025 18:37

Handle9:

larknz:

It's also mentioned that the sparkie visited the site to allow them to do the estimate. Somebody has to pay for this, despite what people may think nothing is free.

That’s a cost to the business. It’s the difference between having your own business and being an employee.

The customer is paying whether it is hidden or upfront.

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