Legal Tender, Paywave.

Please note this sub-forum does not provide professional finance advice. You should seek advice from a licensed financial advisor.

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification.

If investing please consider our affiliate link for new accounts: Sharesies.

Forums › Finance and wealth management › Legal Tender, Paywave.

sdavisnz

1017 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 310

Trusted

#204937 23-Oct-2016 23:02

Just Brainstorming Here,

say I went out for a meal by myself at a restaurant and at the end of the meal I wanted to pay with pay wave on my mobile phone,

pay wave being legal tender, if the merchant did not have pay wave then am I still responsible for paying for my meal if they do not provide the means to pay for my meal?

As a side note, I'm getting kinda frustrated at merchants for not having pay wave as I mainly only take my mobile with me everywhere and the wallet stays in the car/house these days. and merchants whinge that they pay more fees to have pay wave, but is it legal tender?

thoughts?

Voice gives context

1 | 2 | 3

5655 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3978

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1656761 23-Oct-2016 23:25

According to Wikipedia, credit cards and cheques are not legal tender, only cash.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Sideface

9649 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15596

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1656762 23-Oct-2016 23:28

<snip> pay wave being legal tender, if the merchant did not have pay wave then am I still responsible for paying for my meal if they do not provide the means to pay for my meal? <snip>

Wiki:

Legal tender is a medium of payment recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation.
Paper currency and coins are common forms of legal tender in many countries.
Legal tender is variously defined in different jurisdictions.

Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender.
The law does not relieve the debt obligation until payment is tendered.
Coins and banknotes are usually defined as legal tender.

Sideface

richms

29097 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10206

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1656763 23-Oct-2016 23:37

The flip side is that if a place refuses cash because they are "not setup to accept it" at their listed office, and they dont have any agent appointed to take payments, well you tried.

Richard rich.ms

Scott3

4176 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1656765 23-Oct-2016 23:53

In NZ legal tender is defined in the Reserve Bank act.

Paywave is clearly not legal tender.

Some details here:

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/-/media/ReserveBank/Files/Publications/Bulletins/2015/2015sep78-6.pdf

I'm not surprised many merchants don't offer paywave. The terminals are expensive. Also Credit Card fees in general are high, unless you pass these onto your customers, you would really prefer they use cash or EFTPOS. Furthermore there are issues with some paywave terminals being over sensitive, and in regards to shared EFTPOS / Visa debit cards, when the user intents to undertake an Eftpos transaction the paywave system can wirelessly jump in and do the transaction on the visa part of the card before they get it fully swiped...

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#1656767 24-Oct-2016 00:04

Is this really a question? If a store doesn't take paywave then pay with a card or cash and move on.

If a store refused to take cash then they're stupid, refusing cash means they can't chase for payment through the courts.
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/faqs/notes-and-coins-faqs under "Can people refuse to accept cash in payment of accounts or for goods?"

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80646 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41029

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1656770 24-Oct-2016 00:27

Knowing the adoption of Payless terminals is still low, there is no reason for someone not to have their credit card, bank card or cash on hand - regardless of how "cool" one's iPhone might be.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

richms

29097 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10206

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1656771 24-Oct-2016 00:56

freitasm: Knowing the adoption of Payless terminals is still low, there is no reason for someone not to have their credit card, bank card or cash on hand - regardless of how "cool" one's iPhone might be.

The problem is when you go to a place that offers it, has signage for it, and the thing is "down" for whatever reason.

The maccas drivethru near here has not had paywave at the window for weeks. Its not an issue with stolen cards or whatever because you can just insert them and press credit - no pin needed.

Now what if it was a real resturant that you pay after the meal and you have been in many times, they normally take it but it is broken one day?

Richard rich.ms

MadEngineer

4591 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2570

Trusted

#1656790 24-Oct-2016 08:43

You wash the dishes.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

nitrotech

1285 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 168

#1656797 24-Oct-2016 09:33

Settlement fees for Credit Card transactions are still a huge expense for small business, in the latest government review of fees information suggests that small retailers are paying up to 250% more in processing fees for CC transactions than bigger retailers.

Paywave costs even more - pretty easy to see why there's such a small uptake.

DarthKermit

5346 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3317

Trusted

#1656803 24-Oct-2016 09:44

What do people use as a back up when the technology fails to work? It amuses me the number of people who have no idea what to do if the EFTPOS terminal or any other kind of newer pay terminal fails. No technology works 100% of the time.

1eStar

1604 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 375

#1656805 24-Oct-2016 09:48

I like to ask: do you accept cash?

HP

Shop now for HP laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1656814 24-Oct-2016 10:15

nitrotech:

Settlement fees for Credit Card transactions are still a huge expense for small business, in the latest government review of fees information suggests that small retailers are paying up to 250% more in processing fees for CC transactions than bigger retailers.

Paywave costs even more - pretty easy to see why there's such a small uptake.

Paywave DOES NOT cost more than regular credit card transactions. It costs the same or less (in some cases depending on the type of merchant you are) than a regular credit card transaction.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80646 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41029

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1656876 24-Oct-2016 11:44

Ok, on a laptop now so can type more. First PayWave only costs more than a debit card/bank card transactions. It cost the same as a credit card, so people should really stop using this excuse.

No one should rely on a smartphone alone for payment. We know contactless payment does not have the same penetration as cash or standard EFTPOS transactions.

If you don't have means for payment you can always make it good. I once stopped at a petrol station, filled up and then realised I didn't have my wallet. I explained to the cashier, who took my details - stations will give you up to 48 hours to pay, otherwise they send a report to the police. I returned ten minutes later to pay - just the time to drive home and back.

Also since you have your smartphone on hand you could always make a direct deposit into their account, in front of them using either the bank app or the website.

There are ways to pay. No excuses here.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1656878 24-Oct-2016 12:12

The hesitance from some retailers to deploy Paywave/Paypass is that it will increase credit card payments vs eftpos payments which in turn will drive up merchant costs. This is the reason McDonalds in NZ were the first retailer to deploy contactless as part of the ANZ trial before the 2011 World Cup and then proceeded to disable it.

MadEngineer

4591 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2570

Trusted

#1656923 24-Oct-2016 14:04

The most annoying thing is that although I can pay by presenting my wallet to the machine I still have to present the loyalty card.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

1 | 2 | 3