How do you seize bitcoin?

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › How do you seize bitcoin?

kryptonjohn

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#230711 9-Mar-2018 15:00

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/102124143/deadly-new-nethylpentylone-drug-ring-busted-as-police-seize-405k-luxury-cars-and-6kg-of-drugs-in-wellington-sting

"Police also seized $405,000 cash, over $200,000 of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies, about 6kg of n-ethylpentylone and seven vehicles including two Harley-Davidsons, an Audi, HSV Commodore, Mercedes, a Chevrolet ute and a Maserati."

chevrolux

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#1971918 9-Mar-2018 15:03

Maybe they copied out the blockchain in to a note book for safekeeping.

wellygary

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#1971921 9-Mar-2018 15:05

Either by physically taking an offline wallet on a PC or device, Or by obtaining and changing the passwords to an online wallet...

timbosan

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#1971930 9-Mar-2018 15:13

I saw this and was wondering the same thing. Assuming they knew the wallet was on a PC / laptop they could take that. However I would expect people with many $$$ in their wallets would have a backup. Hence they could get funds transferred out before the Police could do anything with them.

Apart from physical seziure the only way would be to transfer the coins out. But that open a whole lot of other questions.

Would do the Police do with bitcoins? Do they sell them? Do they have their own wallet then?

And how would they ever prove the Bitcoins came from the proceeds of crime? Don't they need to do they to keep seized assets?

Fred99

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#1971960 9-Mar-2018 15:27

Presumably - unless there's a big enough "off market" (exchange) trade between cash and bitcoin, then dealing with the proceeds of illegal drug sales is going to necessitate depositing large amounts of NZ$ cash - and one way or another that's going to be traceable. I presume tracing those transactions would have tipped-off the police to the existence of the bitcoins - as otherwise how would they have known they existed?

Anyway - glad to see they arrested these scum. I'm actually opposed to the criminalisation of the drug trade as it hasn't worked, but anybody knowingly selling a known much more harmful drug - by fraudulently claiming it's a much less harmful drug - deserves to have the book thrown at them.

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#1971964 9-Mar-2018 15:30

chevrolux:

Maybe they copied out the blockchain in to a note book for safekeeping.

So that's eight zero six F three A - wait, was that "A" or "K"? What do you mean there's no "K" in a bitcoin? How do you know that? Hexawhatnow?

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Fred99

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#1972000 9-Mar-2018 16:42

kryptonjohn:

"Police also seized ... over ~~$200,000~~ $180,000 of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies.

FTFY to bring it up to date - they seized it yesterday.

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kryptonjohn

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#1972002 9-Mar-2018 16:45

Fred99:

kryptonjohn:

"Police also seized ... over $200,000 $180,000 of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies.

FTFY to bring it up to date - they seized it yesterday.

LOL!

wellygary

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#1972005 9-Mar-2018 16:56

Yeah, perhaps they should have just said they got XX Bit/lite/Doge/etc-

given if they don't move fast by the time they get round to a court case it might not be worth anything-

Then on the other hand it might be worth so much the police can upgrade to Ferraris.... you never know....

Bung

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#1972018 9-Mar-2018 17:24

wellygary:
given if they don't move fast by the time they get round to a court case it might not be worth anything-

Then on the other hand it might be worth so much the police can upgrade to Ferraris.... you never know....

I recall another fairly recent case where stolen or fraudulently obtained money had been invested very well and the accused wanted to keep the gain after repaying the original sum.

cadman

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#1972029 9-Mar-2018 17:44

Oh, it's dead easy. You just tell the media that's what you did.

cadman

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#1972035 9-Mar-2018 17:52

Bung:
wellygary:

given if they don't move fast by the time they get round to a court case it might not be worth anything-

Then on the other hand it might be worth so much the police can upgrade to Ferraris.... you never know....

I recall another fairly recent case where stolen or fraudulently obtained money had been invested very well and the accused wanted to keep the gain after repaying the original sum.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/90978465/government-finally-gets-its-hands-on-fraudsters-apple-shares-after-ten-year-fight

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jpoc

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#1972057 9-Mar-2018 18:29

Fred99:

Presumably - unless there's a big enough "off market" (exchange) trade between cash and bitcoin, then dealing with the proceeds of illegal drug sales is going to necessitate depositing large amounts of NZ$ cash - and one way or another that's going to be traceable. I presume tracing those transactions would have tipped-off the police to the existence of the bitcoins - as otherwise how would they have known they existed?

Anyway - glad to see they arrested these scum. I'm actually opposed to the criminalisation of the drug trade as it hasn't worked, but anybody knowingly selling a known much more harmful drug - by fraudulently claiming it's a much less harmful drug - deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I think that you are fundamentally mistaken in your belief of how these people acquired their crypto. It will have been received as payments for drugs. You use anonymous encrypted messaging apps to communicate between drug sellers and buyers. The buyer sends the bitcoin payment and gets a message back to say where the drugs have been hidden.

jpoc

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#1972059 9-Mar-2018 18:33

timbosan:

I saw this and was wondering the same thing. Assuming they knew the wallet was on a PC / laptop they could take that. However I would expect people with many $$$ in their wallets would have a backup. Hence they could get funds transferred out before the Police could do anything with them.

Apart from physical seziure the only way would be to transfer the coins out. But that open a whole lot of other questions.

Would do the Police do with bitcoins? Do they sell them? Do they have their own wallet then?

And how would they ever prove the Bitcoins came from the proceeds of crime? Don't they need to do they to keep seized assets?

Law enforcement agencies in other jurisdictions have seized crypto in the past and they do with it what they do with other seized items, public auction.

There is also no requirement to show how the crypto was acquired. As long as the suspect fails to show that the wealth was obtained legitimately, it can be seized.

cruxis

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#1972164 9-Mar-2018 21:55

The police would have to transfer the coins to their own wallet. otherwise the crim could just pass the keys or passpharse depending on the wallet to a unknown associate.

elpenguino

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#1972505 10-Mar-2018 18:56

jpoc:

Fred99:

Presumably - unless there's a big enough "off market" (exchange) trade between cash and bitcoin, then dealing with the proceeds of illegal drug sales is going to necessitate depositing large amounts of NZ$ cash - and one way or another that's going to be traceable. I presume tracing those transactions would have tipped-off the police to the existence of the bitcoins - as otherwise how would they have known they existed?

Anyway - glad to see they arrested these scum. I'm actually opposed to the criminalisation of the drug trade as it hasn't worked, but anybody knowingly selling a known much more harmful drug - by fraudulently claiming it's a much less harmful drug - deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I think that you are fundamentally mistaken in your belief of how these people acquired their crypto. It will have been received as payments for drugs. You use anonymous encrypted messaging apps to communicate between drug sellers and buyers. The buyer sends the bitcoin payment and gets a message back to say where the drugs have been hidden.

Any other tips for budding entrepreneurs?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21