Regretfully moving on...

Forums › Vetta and Quic › Regretfully moving on...

genegeney

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#310800 23-Nov-2023 09:09

Have been with QUIC for only a short period and am having to move on. There's been a high number of disconnection issues, packet loss and poor performance. I knew there were network issues, and am aware that QUIC are working to upgrade and resolve things, but it's just too unreliable at the moment. Here are the logs from my Unifi UDM when I switched from 2Degrees:

Now for the fun of reconnecting to 2Degrees. For some reason, on a requested ASAP connection date, they can't do it until the 30th....that's despite it being an entirely remote connection that's required. Sigh. So fed up with the state of broadband in NZ. It's either crap performance or crap service. I was lucky, in the UK before I moved to NZ four years ago, to have fibre to the home at 300mbps - it was consistently fantastic in terms of performance from the main CDNs. The provider was similar to QUIC in that it was fantastic if you're technical. I miss those guys.

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meow
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#3162684 23-Nov-2023 09:15

I monitor a whole lot of connections and they're all pretty stable / no complaints from them. Sure there was a blip this morning but it was only a short one from what I could tell from 5 connections.

I'm also on their beta network currently and they're pretty good there too and I hear they're seriously not far from moving this to production. But just note that 2degrees has CG-NAT also (plus they're the provider I moved from too).

The state of broadband in NZ is actually great. You've got many providers to pick from and they've all got great performance. But anyway, good luck with your move - all providers have issues every now and then.

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nztim

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#3162694 23-Nov-2023 09:29

genegeney

So fed up with the state of broadband in NZ. It's either crap performance or crap service

I think you need a reality check mate, 87% of NZ has full fiber to the house.

In the UK its predominately fiber to the node then VDSL to the house giving you varied speeds of up to 130mbps however there is some full fibre out there

I am currently at my in laws in the US where its Fibre to the entrance of the gated community then G.Fast to the house (last 50-100M still on copper)

You get gigabit down but still only 40mbps up and pages are sluggish to load sometimes which is the same with any copper connection.

And the cost is 99USD + Taxes and it's not unlimited, there is a 1.25TB soft cap.

If you want a provider in NZ with excellent customer service, try NOWNZ but it certainly won't cost $95 per month for gigabit, and you will need to pay for things like static IP addresses to avoid CG-NAT.

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genegeney

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#3162695 23-Nov-2023 09:31

I've tried pretty much all of the main broadband providers and only 2Degrees has given me decent performance from the core CDNs. All of the others have been woeful - and you will have seen my post about MSDN and Azure download speeds on QUIC. When using a VPN, everything works fine, so it's clearly routing and peering causing the issue. Was the same with Spark and the same with Voyager, which is why I shifted off those networks. We get gigabit or hyperfibre broadband so we can burst to very fast download speeds from the CDNs that can serve us content at those speeds. I could always max out my 300mbps connection in the UK, when downloading from the CDNs, but I get 1MB/s when downloading from MSDN on QUIC...

I'll get a static IP with 2Degrees to avoid the CG-NAT situation. I'll reassess moving back to QUIC in a year when things have settled and IPoE etc. is in place.

nztim

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#3162710 23-Nov-2023 09:38

Vocus (now 2degrees) have a private link to Microsoft from their North Shore DC, which is why your downloads from Azure are exceptional on any ISP within that family (Slingshot/Sky/Orcon/flip/2degress)

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michaelmurfy

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#3162711 23-Nov-2023 09:39

Even CDN performance has been great and actually for me this has been on-par with 2degrees (on Quic). It is only going to get better too.

Most ISP's have CDN caches on their actual network or CDN caches available only a hop or two away and with Akamai you'll find you need to use your providers DNS to get full speed to them. Seriously our internet here is great.

RunningMan

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#3162712 23-Nov-2023 09:40

genegeney:[snip] I could always max out my 300mbps connection in the UK,

Do you mean Mb/s here? Either way, it's pretty trivial to saturate that connection from a single source but not so for 2 Gb/s. The advantages for a hyperfibre connection would generally be being able to to pull (say) 300 Mb/s from a whoie bunch of sources simultaneously.

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genegeney

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#3162713 23-Nov-2023 09:41

nztim:

I think you need a reality check mate, 87% of NZ has full fiber to the house.

In the UK its predominately fiber to the node then VDSL to the house giving you varied speeds of up to 130mbps however there is some full fibre out there

No reality check required - I know that NZ has a far better fibre infrastructure than the UK. My point is that I was fortunate to have fibre to the home in the UK and, even at the 'slower' speed of a 300mbps connection, I'd get far better download performance than my Hyperfibre 2Gbps connection here. No point having this great national fibre infrastructure if the performance is rubbish due to poor international connectivity, peering or routing. 2Degrees has rubbish service and you have to fight them to get things done. Having just done that, I'll be connected with them at midday today. But they seem to have the best performance based on my tests so far.

I truly hope that QUIC settles their network down, gets to a point of high reliability and performance and then I'll be back in a year.

genegeney

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#3162715 23-Nov-2023 09:44

RunningMan:

genegeney:[snip] I could always max out my 300mbps connection in the UK,

Do you mean Mb/s here? Either way, it's pretty trivial to saturate that connection from a single source but not so for 2 Gb/s. The advantages for a hyperfibre connection would generally be being able to to pull (say) 300 Mb/s from a whoie bunch of sources simultaneously.

Nope - I mean Mbps...just failed to capitalise the M :)

I'm not expecting to be able to maximise my 2Gbps connection from a single source - though I should get pretty close from the likes of MSDN and Azure and other core CDNs. But I can't even get 300Mbps performance out of my 2Gbps connection from those sources....that's my point and my grumble. If I use a VPN, I can get better performance than through QUIC's network. That points to peering/routing issues.

genegeney

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#3162717 23-Nov-2023 09:44

michaelmurfy:

Even CDN performance has been great and actually for me this has been on-par with 2degrees (on Quic). It is only going to get better too.

Most ISP's have CDN caches on their actual network or CDN caches available only a hop or two away and with Akamai you'll find you need to use your providers DNS to get full speed to them. Seriously our internet here is great.

I'm pleased you've had a better experience than me. If my results were the same, I wouldn't be leaving. As I said before, you will have seen my post where I provided screenshots of the performance I've been getting.

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#3162724 23-Nov-2023 09:59

Serious question - why is this happening with Quic and Quic alone?

Is it as a result of fewer resources because of the lower-cost business model?
Is there a lack of experienced people running the hardware/software?

The ability to run diagnostics doesn't seem to be helping in these situations.

In my years of NZ fibre usage before moving to Quic, internet outages were vanishingly rare, and usually regional, rather than provider-specific, or due to a digger accident or car crash, etc.

Now it's getting to the point where my wife is asking why I changed over when things were running fine previously, and the $20 monthly savings are looking like a false economy.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love for Quic to succeed and their business model appeals greatly, but at the moment it feels like something I'd recommend to a hobbyist, and not someone like myself who relies on a solid connection for work.

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genegeney

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#3162731 23-Nov-2023 10:06

Gurezaemon:

Now it's getting to the point where my wife is asking why I changed over when things were running fine previously, and the $20 monthly savings are looking like a false economy.

Going back to 2Degrees is going to be a $5p/m saving compared to QUIC. Hyperfibre 2 is $129p/m - and I get a $10p/m discount for being a mobile customer. That'll disappear as I have to pay $10p/m for a static IP, but QUIC is $135p/m and the one off charge for the static IP.

My wife is working from home today and got cut off with this morning's outage, which caused some issues. Had to reboot the ONT and my router to get back online. Has happened a good few times since I joined QUIC weeks ago. With 2Degrees only happened once.

QUIC's customer service, even though they don't have a technical desk, is way better than 2Degrees - they were very helpful in getting me connected earlier than originally anticipated. But 2Degrees has the edge in terms of their network. That's my take - seems others disagree, but I'm just going off my experience.

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michaelmurfy

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#3162733 23-Nov-2023 10:10

genegeney: I'm pleased you've had a better experience than me. If my results were the same, I wouldn't be leaving. As I said before, you will have seen my post where I provided screenshots of the performance I've been getting.

IMHO based on every single one of your threads as soon as there is a speed issue you're very quick to jump ship. This is basically all you post about on here:

Stuff / Devoli: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=270235

2degrees: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=280564

Orcon (Vocus - same network as 2degrees now): https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=301946

2degrees: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81&topicid=249013&page_no=3#2557403

Quic: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=194&topicId=310692

That is a few ISP's in just a few short years you've had issues with over the same thing all over the same CDN also. To be honest, I don't think you'll ever be fully happy with any ISP and also I would look at your own setup considering many people have stated they're not having any issues either. I don't know if there is something you're running, a router configuration issue or what but there is also a chance you'll see issues on 2degrees also again then jump ship to another ISP.

I need to reiterate that all ISP's have issues. The internet is not perfect, internet routes change which means CDN performance can too especially if there has been a large game update or release as an example. I can basically get full speed from Microsoft even right now so I am not sure what is up with your setup but it is perhaps worth taking a closer look at it.

michaelmurfy

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#3162736 23-Nov-2023 10:15

Gurezaemon: Serious question - why is this happening with Quic and Quic alone?

Basically refer back to the sticky: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=194&topicid=307025

I don't work there or anything but just what I've seen it is caused by huge growth for a small ISP over a small time which isn't necessary a bad problem to have but because of this core network elements pass a whole lot more traffic and they have had some bad luck with equipment failure too.

I know they're basically rebuilding their broadband network from the ground up which is no small job and I have also seen progress here with being a beta tester. I think there was a troublesome BNG of theirs which is responsible for some outages here but this is getting replaced shortly too so I think right now they're just holding on until that happens.

genegeney

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#3162742 23-Nov-2023 10:26

michaelmurfy:

genegeney: I'm pleased you've had a better experience than me. If my results were the same, I wouldn't be leaving. As I said before, you will have seen my post where I provided screenshots of the performance I've been getting.

IMHO based on every single one of your threads as soon as there is a speed issue you're very quick to jump ship. This is basically all you post about on here:

Stuff / Devoli: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=270235

2degrees: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=280564

Orcon (Vocus - same network as 2degrees now): https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=81&topicId=301946

2degrees: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81&topicid=249013&page_no=3#2557403

Quic: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumId=194&topicId=310692

That is a few ISP's in just a few short years you've had issues with over the same thing all over the same CDN also. To be honest, I don't think you'll ever be fully happy with any ISP and also I would look at your own setup considering many people have stated they're not having any issues either. I don't know if there is something you're running, a router configuration issue or what but there is also a chance you'll see issues on 2degrees also again then jump ship to another ISP.

I need to reiterate that all ISP's have issues. The internet is not perfect, internet routes change which means CDN performance can too especially if there has been a large game update or release as an example. I can basically get full speed from Microsoft even right now so I am not sure what is up with your setup but it is perhaps worth taking a closer look at it.

No opinion required - it's right there in black and white as a fact 😀. Yes indeed...I'm not happy to pay for a service I'm not getting and will move on accordingly. Why would I stay where things aren't working properly? I've been pretty disappointed across the board until 2Degrees whom I've been with for quite a while. So, to your point about me going to them and jumping, that doesn't make sense. I switched to QUIC because I could get Hyperfibre and I liked the idea of a network for techies. But I'm not going to pay (more than 2Degrees) for a service I'm not benefiting from properly - I get worse performance in the areas that matter to me.

In terms of my setup being the issue, that really doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Everything works fine on 2Degrees. I switched to QUIC and the performance is worse. If things are fine, on my setup with 2Degrees, what makes you think my setup is the cause of issues on QUIC (or the other providers I tried and moved away from)? I'm not going to suggest that my setup is perfect and optimised in every way, but I work in IT and am CCNA certified so am sure it's not drastically misconfigured.

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#3162746 23-Nov-2023 10:35

There are a whole lot of industry professionals on here who have also said "nothing wrong on our end" multiple times to you and even said to perhaps take a look at your own network in pretty much every single one of your threads. I don't know if you have just unreasonably high expectations or if there is a network issue or what. You'll be back switching to another ISP soon enough as you've been with both sides of 2degrees and have complained about both also for the same reason.

It doesn't matter if you're CCNA certified. Just pointing out the common theme here that I've noticed as it is unusual for somebody to be hopping between providers all the time. Perhaps time to consider getting a secondary backup provider?

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