H.264 support in Windows 7: native and out-of-the-box

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#193358 2-Feb-2009 10:34

mikehayton:
I guess some other application could extract the data and then it could be reformatted and loaded into media center.
(usual disclaimer: loading your own data into Media Center is not a Microsoft supported scenario)

Not supported by MS maybe but they have provided a loadmxf.exe file that will load a correctly formated guide in MC. They may not support MHEG5 but they are making it easier to load a guide and get all the information that you want.

cheers
db

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mikehayton

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#193366 2-Feb-2009 11:22

nzwogboy: So does Freeview DVB-S not use MHEG5? How do we get the guide that we curently get from DVB-S (Full 7 day) and DVB-T (Now and Next) if Media Center can't get the guide from the MHEG feed? Thi is one part of DVB that I have never really understood.

Guide data is transmitted in two types of tables in DVB

Eit [p/f] = this is transmitted very frequently but just contains the now and next (present/following) programs
Eit [sched] = this table is contains a 4 hour chunk of programs. Up to 14 days of data is transmitted on a rotating basis - comes slowly (say over a minute)

On DVB-S there's good data in both types of tables.
On DVB-T, some services (channels) have program names in the EIT [p/f], and EIT[sched]. But dependening on the service, a lot of the EIT[sched] just contains dots for program titles.

For these ones with dots in the title, Freeview is tagging the program with a CRID (content resource ID) (something I thought was only used in the UK). A CRID is a uri-like id for an airing of a Program (e.g. crid://www.tvnz.co.nz/123456). They're used to match inband data against listings obtained from someother place (usually downloaded)

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

nzwogboy

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#193374 2-Feb-2009 11:43

Ok makes a bit more sense now, still don't understand where MHEG5 comes in though if DVB-T uses EIT or does DVB-T use both EIT and MHEG5 (My understanding of MHEG5 is that it is the guide and other interactive services)? Just trying to work out the issues/differences with the guides. From reading different posts it seems thtat MHEG5 will never (not in the near future) be used in media center, so if this is the case, will there be a full EIT guide for DVB-T just like the satilitte Guide or will it stay as it is? And this does seem to tell me that the issues we are having with Media Center recordings (Partial recordings etc) is with EIT and nothing to do with MHEG5, if so this is good because it means Microsoft will most likely fix the issues (well more of a chance than if it were to do with MHEG5).
Something else that does not make sense now is the differnece between the Sky Guide and the Freeview guide (I had thought it was because freeview uses MHEG5 and Sky uses EIT but this has now been cleared up fpr me).ie why do we have the recording issues withe the freeview guide using the in-band EIT and not the sky in-Band EIT?

Sorry for taking the thread off topic.

sbiddle

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#193401 2-Feb-2009 13:48

mikehayton:
I doubt Media center will ever extract the guide listings from the MHEG application. MHEG is akin to javascript and to Media Center's MHEG engine it doesnt have the context that its running a guide grid display verses any other MHEG app, (say displaying sports scores, or receipies for a cooking show). There's an added issue that the MHEG engine is obligated to protect the data sent and keep it secure.

This is incorrect Mike. The MHEG5 EPG data is not protected in any way and can be easily extracted.

A program was written by a fellow GZ user close to a year ago showing how to extract the MHEG5 EPG data to an XML file and the source for this is freely available here. Note that this does not work fully after some small changes to the MHEG5 middleware when the MHEG5 PVR changes were deployed late last year and he has not updated it.

There is nothing to stop Microsoft obtaining the NZ specific MHEG5 specs from Freeview and extracting the EPG data to the existing Media Center EPG - using that source you should have this up and working in a few hours! :-)

There is potentially no need to fully support MHEG5 in the short term - the current Media Center EPG is far nicer than the MHEG5 one and also a lot nicer than the official MHEG5 PVR EPG addon. In the long term howeverfull support for MHEG5 should probably be the goal to allow access to features such as the red button. Source for all this is available and the MHEG5 specs are available. Why do Microsoft insist on not implimenting something that is now becoming an accepted middleware solution?

If full MHEG5 support isn't going to happen in the short term the bare minimum requirement is a way to extract the MHEG5 EPG to the existing Media Centre EPG. EIT is a dead format for EPG's, Australia have now made their updated Freeview EPG only available through MHEG5 (EIT only contains minimal program info) and most new DVB-T rollouts will be MHEG5 only. This isn't something that is just needed in NZ, it's something that is now occuring in many countries.

Without any EPG support I can guarantee what the number 1 question to the Microsoft help line is going to be once Windows 7 launches.

browned

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#193424 2-Feb-2009 15:04

sbiddle:
This is incorrect Mike. The MHEG5 EPG data is not protected in any way and can be easily extracted.

A program was written by a fellow GZ user close to a year ago showing how to extract the MHEG5 EPG data to an XML file and the source for this is freely available here. Note that this does not work fully after some small changes to the MHEG5 middleware when the MHEG5 PVR changes were deployed late last year and he has not updated it.

Great so with this code, some changes required, we will be able to dump an XML file. Then someone ,I say someone as I am not into coding myself, can create a xml parser so it is converted to MS's very soon to be released specs for MXF files. Then we can do a loadmxf.exe /i <filename> command in Windows 7 and ding dong......working 8 day epg.

Other option is if loadmxf.exe can load a web address then someone just needs to host the mxf file.

Of course it would be better if MS did this for us but this is going to be a lot better for DVB-T users than the current situation.

cheers
db

Antzzz

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#193493 2-Feb-2009 19:14

... which is more or less what the Aussies are working on here:

http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/windows-7-epg-support/34626-windows-7-3rd-party-epg-via-loadmxf.html

You'll note that Mike is the one who has written the docs on how loadmxf works, release due shortly right Mike? And thanks for chiming in here - great to see an actual explanation of how the OTA guide data works and why we are seeing what we are seeing in W7...

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freitasm

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#193500 2-Feb-2009 19:35

mikehayton: For these ones with dots in the title, Freeview is tagging the program with a CRID (content resource ID) (something I thought was only used in the UK). A CRID is a uri-like id for an airing of a Program (e.g. crid://www.tvnz.co.nz/123456). They're used to match inband data against listings obtained from someother place (usually downloaded)

Thanks Milke... Good to know why this is happening.

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limegreen

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#193768 3-Feb-2009 19:16

rhysb: Mediacenter Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Sorry, I'd been kind of ignoring this thread as I assumed the beta release was just something that certain people had access to (until I was reading the NBR of all things), but I'm just wondering if anyone is actually using Windows 7 full-time for a DVB-T htpc in a stable-useable kind of way?

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boby55

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#193775 3-Feb-2009 19:43

limegreen: rhysb: Mediacenter Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Sorry, I'd been kind of ignoring this thread as I assumed the beta release was just something that certain people had access to (until I was reading the NBR of all things), but I'm just wondering if anyone is actually using Windows 7 full-time for a DVB-T htpc in a stable-useable kind of way?

Ive been using Windows 7 build 7000 for 3 weeks now on my DVB-T HTPC and have never recived a problem other than one piece of software which I have now updated to the 2008 version.

I though Windows Vista Home Premium. But I love Windows for my HTPC

freitasm

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#193782 3-Feb-2009 19:58

limegreen: rhysb: Mediacenter Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Sorry, I'd been kind of ignoring this thread as I assumed the beta release was just something that certain people had access to (until I was reading the NBR of all things), but I'm just wondering if anyone is actually using Windows 7 full-time for a DVB-T htpc in a stable-useable kind of way?

Working fine here. Actually just looked at the Windows event log and the last error entry is for about eight days ago. Very nice and stable...

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browned

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#193910 4-Feb-2009 10:00

freitasm:
Working fine here. Actually just looked at the Windows event log and the last error entry is for about eight days ago. Very nice and stable...

Since baby arrived and I had some spare time....some, not much. I was able to complete a home server backup, and install Windows 7 beta. I must say it is a hell of a lot more stable than what I was expecting.

Only issues I have are....
1. No 8 day EPG......yet, people are working on it.
2. Fullstops in now and next EPG. Will not be problem when 8 day EPG is sorted.
3. Music library dead slow if not freezing if home server is slightly busy. Likely to be network related for me.
4. Nova-T-500 dual TV tuner card issues......not sure if driver or Windows problem, thinking Windows.
5. DVB-T tv sound is heavy on the bass...not good for little one and wife when trying to sleep especially Boston Legal last night. Could be sound driver issue.

Other than that, it is great and almost gets the WAF stamp.

Benefits I have noticed so far....
1. Windows startup is very quick even with AV and software loading.
2. Library settings now set for each type of library, Music, Videos, Pictures, Movies.
3. Desktop background changer is nice.....finally
4. TV Picture looks better to me....HD and SD content.
5. DVB-T defaults to dolby sound if it is available,

cheers
db

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madad

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#194015 4-Feb-2009 15:10

Anyone using windows 7 beta with xboxes as clients? I'm keen to switch my vista server to using windows 7 but don't want to do it too soon.

I see people are complaining about no 8 day guide, I was under the impression you simply use a dvb-s card and map the guide to the dvb-t channels.. is this correct? I have two nova-s cards and a dual tuner dvbt card..

(Sorry if this has all been answered already!)

Maybe i'll just find a spare drive and try it anyway..

nzwogboy

93 posts

Master Geek

#194037 4-Feb-2009 15:53

I see people are complaining about no 8 day guide, I was under the impression you simply use a dvb-s card and map the guide to the dvb-t channels.. is this correct? I have two nova-s cards and a dual tuner dvbt card..

(Sorry if this has all been answered already!)

Maybe i'll just find a spare drive and try it anyway..

You a right about the guide only problem is there is still issues with the Freeview DVB-S guide giving us those old issues that were in TV pack, Partial recordings etc. It does't always record your shows which just sux.

Mattv

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#194039 4-Feb-2009 16:00

madad: Anyone using windows 7 beta with xboxes as clients? I'm keen to switch my vista server to using windows 7 but don't want to do it too soon.

I see people are complaining about no 8 day guide, I was under the impression you simply use a dvb-s card and map the guide to the dvb-t channels.. is this correct? I have two nova-s cards and a dual tuner dvbt card..

(Sorry if this has all been answered already!)

Maybe i'll just find a spare drive and try it anyway..

I tried it with 2 360's. Guide and TV worked brilliantly with a similar setup to you tuner wise (guide setup as you mention works well). The only problem I had was playback of large mpegs (ripped DVD .vobs converted to .mpgs) these "stuttered" during playback and were essentially unwatchable. They played fine on the 7MC PC and play fine on the 360's under Vista. The 360's are both connected to CRT TV's via component and composite and from what I have been able to find out it may be some problem with 50hz CRT setups (60hz is not supported anymore either) If you are connecting to more modern TV's you may have more luck (and I would be very keen to hear how you go if that is the case) I've reluctantly had to give up for now as the kids watch these movies all the time. I really hope there is a fix in the pipeline soon because otherwise is was great.

Mattv

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#194045 4-Feb-2009 16:10

nzwogboy:
I see people are complaining about no 8 day guide, I was under the impression you simply use a dvb-s card and map the guide to the dvb-t channels.. is this correct? I have two nova-s cards and a dual tuner dvbt card..

(Sorry if this has all been answered already!)

Maybe i'll just find a spare drive and try it anyway..

You a right about the guide only problem is there is still issues with the Freeview DVB-S guide giving us those old issues that were in TV pack, Partial recordings etc. It does't always record your shows which just sux.

I should perhaps mention that I was using SKY's EPG data rather than Freeviews and only for a few days so cannot say much about the reliability of the guide info and recording.

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