CGA Part Deux

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › CGA Part Deux

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9

2173 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 836

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#622076 9-May-2012 09:37

illicit: According to the current system most TVs are the low quality variety which are only expected to last 1 year - even the $5000 top the range model...

The best way to determine the quality of a pproduct is to ask those who made it. The manafactures know which of their products are the budget models and which are high end. We should we know which is which when purchasing... Why should it be a guessing game?

I have no issue with buying a budget model with a 1 year warranty - in some cases it suits the requirements (eg: spare TV for the kids to watch DVDs on until the main tv is upgraded next year)

Manufactures are free to set what ever warrantee period they want, but if they choose to do business in a particular market that sets minimum standards by law then they must comply and bear the cost of doing so.

If they either price their product so low or make such a poor product that they can't afford to provide they minimum as required by law then who's fault is it? Can't blame the end consumer can you, they are well within their rights as set out under law.

networkn

Networkn
32864 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15454

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#622087 9-May-2012 09:49

gregmcc:
illicit: According to the current system most TVs are the low quality variety which are only expected to last 1 year - even the $5000 top the range model...

The best way to determine the quality of a pproduct is to ask those who made it. The manafactures know which of their products are the budget models and which are high end. We should we know which is which when purchasing... Why should it be a guessing game?

I have no issue with buying a budget model with a 1 year warranty - in some cases it suits the requirements (eg: spare TV for the kids to watch DVDs on until the main tv is upgraded next year)

Manufactures are free to set what ever warrantee period they want, but if they choose to do business in a particular market that sets minimum standards by law then they must comply and bear the cost of doing so.

If they either price their product so low or make such a poor product that they can't afford to provide they minimum as required by law then who's fault is it? Can't blame the end consumer can you, they are well within their rights as set out under law.

My question for you then is this... If you buy a parallel imported items, should you be covered? Some manufacturers aren't even in this part of the world but their items are.,.. For Example, until recently Samsung Mobiles were sold in NZ, but there was no local office for Cellular devices (Only TV's etc).

Should Samsung NZ be responsible if your Samsung Mobile is defective?

Handle9

11925 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9675

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#622092 9-May-2012 09:55

networkn:

My question for you then is this... If you buy a parallel imported items, should you be covered? Some manufacturers aren't even in this part of the world but their items are.,.. For Example, until recently Samsung Mobiles were sold in NZ, but there was no local office for Cellular devices (Only TV's etc).

Should Samsung NZ be responsible if your Samsung Mobile is defective?

You are covered, but by the retailer and the parallel importer. The brand name doesn't mean a thing, it's the supply chain that matters - except in the court of public opinion.

We have an issue at work where we do not locally import, support or sell many of the products our company makes off shore. Inevitably we get support calls which have to be redirected to whoever sold them the products, including to a major ISP who imported modems directly from offshore.

Handle9

11925 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9675

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#622093 9-May-2012 09:56

networkn:

My question for you then is this... If you buy a parallel imported items, should you be covered? Some manufacturers aren't even in this part of the world but their items are.,.. For Example, until recently Samsung Mobiles were sold in NZ, but there was no local office for Cellular devices (Only TV's etc).

Should Samsung NZ be responsible if your Samsung Mobile is defective?

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#622094 9-May-2012 09:58

networkn:
gregmcc:
illicit: According to the current system most TVs are the low quality variety which are only expected to last 1 year - even the $5000 top the range model...

The best way to determine the quality of a pproduct is to ask those who made it. The manafactures know which of their products are the budget models and which are high end. We should we know which is which when purchasing... Why should it be a guessing game?

I have no issue with buying a budget model with a 1 year warranty - in some cases it suits the requirements (eg: spare TV for the kids to watch DVDs on until the main tv is upgraded next year)

Manufactures are free to set what ever warrantee period they want, but if they choose to do business in a particular market that sets minimum standards by law then they must comply and bear the cost of doing so.

If they either price their product so low or make such a poor product that they can't afford to provide they minimum as required by law then who's fault is it? Can't blame the end consumer can you, they are well within their rights as set out under law.

My question for you then is this... If you buy a parallel imported items, should you be covered? Some manufacturers aren't even in this part of the world but their items are.,.. For Example, until recently Samsung Mobiles were sold in NZ, but there was no local office for Cellular devices (Only TV's etc).

Should Samsung NZ be responsible if your Samsung Mobile is defective?

The reseller is the first and primary avenue if this fails then you can approach the Manufacturer.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15

#622157 9-May-2012 12:21

gregmcc: Manufactures are free to set what ever warrantee period they want, but if they choose to do business in a particular market that sets minimum standards by law then they must comply and bear the cost of doing so.

If they either price their product so low or make such a poor product that they can't afford to provide they minimum as required by law then who's fault is it? Can't blame the end consumer can you, they are well within their rights as set out under law.

Ok, so you think the system is fine how it is. I have no problem with that.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

mrdrifter

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 294

ID Verified

Trusted

#622322 9-May-2012 16:20

illicit:
gregmcc: Manufactures are free to set what ever warrantee period they want, but if they choose to do business in a particular market that sets minimum standards by law then they must comply and bear the cost of doing so.

If they either price their product so low or make such a poor product that they can't afford to provide they minimum as required by law then who's fault is it? Can't blame the end consumer can you, they are well within their rights as set out under law.

Ok, so you think the system is fine how it is. I have no problem with that.

On this, I wouldn't say the system is perfect, but I think it does a very good job currently of addressing what can be quite complex issues, especially with technology items. I personally wouldn't want to see NZ go down the path of only having 'Warranty' protection, as this opens the door for planned Obsolescence. As with many laws, they need to be written in such a way as to protect the majority of people.

The current review of the Consumer protection laws is already throwing up a number of differing points of view, especially around the CGA, Marketing and Misleading practices. It would be interesting to know your opinion of the stance many manufactures/marketing people are taking on advertising claims as follows.
They marketing/manufacturing people have proposed that any product claims should be allowed in advertising - and that it would be the consumers responsibilty to disprove the claim if they had a problem with them.

gregmcc

2173 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 836

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#622349 9-May-2012 16:55

They marketing/manufacturing people have proposed that any product claims should be allowed in advertising - and that it would be the consumers responsibilty to disprove the claim if they had a problem with them.

Just goes to show what lengths markerting/manafactures are prepared to sink to.

Just to balance things out maybe should the consumer dsiprove the claim them the markerting/manafacturer should be libal for massivly high damages to said consumer?

oxnsox

1923 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 138

#622381 9-May-2012 17:35

illicit: Can anyone tell me what negatives they see in having the manafactures set a warranty period for their products, basically setting the expected lifespan of the product. This can be advertised on the product (like energy star labels) to provide a clearer indication of value/quality.

eg: Budget 40"LCD = $800 with 10,000hr warranty/lifespan or Top of the line 40" LCD = $2800 with 50,000hr warranty/lifespan.

This concept is only valid for people who understand what is meant by the term 'Hours'.
Is it actual 'screen-on' hours? or Plugged into the wall 'hours' (where theres still power in the TV circuits)?

The 'Time' based warranty period, of 'years', is more widely understood by most in the community... but even then you'll have those who've had there 32" TV in the Bach for 5 years, and only used it for a few weeks each Christmas. When that fails which way do they look??

On top of all that there are environmental and user issues effecting product reliability.My Tele is not in a place where it has direct sunlight on it. Yet driving down any street you'll see plenty of TV's cooking in the sun... and freezing in the frost of a winter morn? Manufacturers have to cover a lot of user abuse.

As to reliability and cheap components. I'd argue that given the more accurate manufacturing processes and tighter component tolerances that (most) modern electronics are, by design, inherently more reliable than models from an era (or a decade) past. Sure you'll get bad designs where they cut costs and corners and pay in reduced reliability, but bear in mind that we're not the users of technology we (or our parents) used to be. The buy-now-and-replace-when-it-fails brigade, and the 10year life span is reflective of this.

Today we tend to roll over our technology in much shorter time scales, we upgrade-for-enhancements. And manufacturers are aware of this, which is why they keep enhancing things, so what now should be the realistic 'life-cycle'? Because that time scale, or rather half-of-it, should be the manufacturers and users expected warranty period.

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15

#622395 9-May-2012 18:08

oxnsox:
This concept is only valid for people who understand what is meant by the term 'Hours'.
Is it actual 'screen-on' hours? or Plugged into the wall 'hours' (where theres still power in the TV circuits)?

The 'Time' based warranty period, of 'years', is more widely understood by most in the community... but even then you'll have those who've had there 32" TV in the Bach for 5 years, and only used it for a few weeks each Christmas. When that fails which way do they look??

Most manufactures already have an 'hour counter' built in to the TV, usually only accessible through the service menu.

It would be no problem for the manufactures to have this either A - Show up in the normal menu or B - Show up for a few seconds when the TV is turned on.

Farm machinery is a good example - they already have warranties based on 'Hours of operation' eg: John Deere tractors have 5yr or 1500hrs (whichever comes first)

What is wrong with applying that to TVs?

Dunnersfella

4100 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 887

#622444 9-May-2012 19:17

oxnsox:

As to reliability and cheap components. I'd argue that given the more accurate manufacturing processes and tighter component tolerances that (most) modern electronics are, by design, inherently more reliable than models from an era (or a decade) past. Sure you'll get bad designs where they cut costs and corners and pay in reduced reliability, but bear in mind that we're not the users of technology we (or our parents) used to be. The buy-now-and-replace-when-it-fails brigade, and the 10year life span is reflective of this.

I tell ya what, go pick up a 46" 2012 series 6 Samsung LED TV, watch that plastic fantastic flex as you move the panel into a horizontal position... watch the back of the TV flex as you plug in an RCA adapter - it may be 'fancy', but it's certainly not what I'd call re-reassuringly constructed.
Compare it the connections / weight of an equivalently priced 2 channel ampllfier - worlds apart.

Now for 2.5k I'd 'expect' 7-10 years out of the amp, but about 3 years out of the TV.
Then again, you'd never pay full price for the Samsung...
Whereas integrated stereo amplifiers hold their value A LOT more.

Geekzone

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).

mattwnz

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#622473 9-May-2012 19:51

Interesting story on Fair go with a faulty computer. The lady for the ministry of consumer affairs said that that if retailers fail to fix something on the first go. Eg you send something off to be repaired under the CGA, if it returns unfixed and with the same problem, then you can chose what remedy you want to proceed with. I always thought you had to give them at least a couple of chances to remedy.

mattwnz

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#622474 9-May-2012 19:52

Dunnersfella:
oxnsox:

As to?reliability?and cheap components. ?I'd argue that given the more accurate manufacturing processes and tighter component?tolerances?that (most) modern electronics are, by design, inherently more reliable than models from an era (or a decade) past. ?Sure you'll get bad designs where they cut costs and corners and pay in reduced reliability, but bear in mind that we're not the users of technology we (or our parents) used to be. The buy-now-and-replace-when-it-fails brigade, and the 10year life span is reflective of this.

I tell ya what, go pick up a 46" 2012 series 6 Samsung LED TV, watch that plastic fantastic flex as you move the panel into a horizontal position... watch the back of the TV flex as you plug in an RCA adapter - it may be 'fancy', but it's certainly not what I'd call re-reassuringly constructed.
Compare it the connections / weight of an equivalently priced 2 channel ampllfier - worlds apart.

Now for 2.5k I'd 'expect' 7-10 years out of the amp, but about 3 years out of the TV.
Then again, you'd never pay full price for the Samsung...
Whereas integrated stereo amplifiers hold their value A LOT more.

Yeap some of these tvs look like they are built to a budget.

oxnsox

1923 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 138

#622578 9-May-2012 22:14

illicit:
oxnsox:
This concept is only valid for people who understand what is meant by the term 'Hours'.
Is it actual 'screen-on' hours? or Plugged into the wall 'hours' (where theres still power in the TV circuits)?

The 'Time' based warranty period, of 'years', is more widely understood by most in the community... but even then you'll have those who've had there 32" TV in the Bach for 5 years, and only used it for a few weeks each Christmas. When that fails which way do they look??

Most manufactures already have an 'hour counter' built in to the TV, usually only accessible through the service menu.
It would be no problem for the manufactures to have this either A - Show up in the normal menu or B - Show up for a few seconds when the TV is turned on.

Farm machinery is a good example - they already have warranties based on 'Hours of operation' eg: John Deere tractors have 5yr or 1500hrs (whichever comes first)

What is wrong with applying that to TVs?

You have to educate the public to this way of thinking. A Tractor is a mechanical device and hour counters are commonly used across mechanical machinery (land, sea, air, vehicles and other equipment) to determine maintenance intervals.

Applying that model across a consumer items with few mechanical parts will take a huge mind-shift. Most folk don't understand preventative maintenance, especially on non mechanical items.

illicit

553 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 15

#622607 9-May-2012 23:37

oxnsox:
illicit:
oxnsox:?
This concept is only valid for people who understand what is meant by the term 'Hours'.
Is it actual 'screen-on' hours? ?or Plugged into the wall 'hours' (where theres still power in the TV circuits)?

The 'Time' based warranty period, of 'years', is more widely understood by most in the community... but even then you'll have those who've had there 32" TV in the Bach for 5 years, and only used it for a few weeks each Christmas. When that fails which way do they look??

Most?manufactures?already have an 'hour counter' built in to the TV, usually only accessible through the service menu.
It would be no problem for the?manufactures?to have this either A - Show up in the normal menu or B - Show up for a few seconds when the TV is turned on.

Farm machinery is a good example - they already have warranties based on 'Hours of operation' eg: John Deere tractors have 5yr or 1500hrs (whichever comes first)

What is wrong with applying that to TVs?

You have to educate the public to this way of thinking. A Tractor is a mechanical device and hour counters are commonly used across mechanical machinery (land, sea, air, vehicles and other equipment) to determine maintenance intervals.

Applying that model across a consumer items with few mechanical parts will take a huge mind-shift.? Most folk don't understand preventative maintenance, especially on non mechanical items.

What preventative maintenance? I'm talking about tvs...

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9