xmlTVNZ take down order from sky

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › xmlTVNZ take down order from sky

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101 posts

Master Geek
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#309139 19-Mar-2010 14:05

So my local config file will just not update, but will be ok as long as the source (currently freeview for most channels) does not change?

Sorry for being a muppet, but the wife will slowly and brutally axe murder me if the HTPC guide implodes.....

ivan

reven

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#309142 19-Mar-2010 14:10

borgia: So my local config file will just not update, but will be ok as long as the source (currently freeview for most channels) does not change?

Sorry for being a muppet, but the wife will slowly and brutally axe murder me if the HTPC guide implodes.....

ivan

yes that is correct, your local config file is fine, it wont get updated or replaced by a dummy file (but make a backup of it somewhere just incase).

the only few changes i made over the past year were adding channels, with the freeview xml sources, those are pretty much safe and will keep working. and saturn havent changes their website in as long as i can remember (which has sky).

gb: You could but not necessary (and more complicated). The benefit of using a company is that it is "limited liablity", so if the company gets sued that liability cannot by itself pass through to the shareholders or directors (except in certain situations).

i would only be party 1 in that scenario, leaving party 2 and 3 up to the community. and party 1 would be an open source project run under the LGPL license.

blur

384 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#309144 19-Mar-2010 14:12

gb:
reven: ... wondering if there are 3 parties, all seperate

You could but not necessary (and more complicated). The benefit of using a company is that it is "limited liablity", so if the company gets sued that liability cannot by itself pass through to the shareholders or directors (except in certain situations).

Hi gb - just coming into this discussion late. Funnily enough the lawyer I just had lunch with suggested the idea of a limited liability company too. Makes perfect sense really...

However, if it could be proven that reven has simply formed the company for protection then isn't this fruitless? I mean to say he has already written and distributed the code (and accepted payment) as an individual?

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gb

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#309176 19-Mar-2010 15:46

blur: ... However, if it could be proven that reven has simply formed the company for protection then isn't this fruitless? I mean to say he has already written and distributed the code (and accepted payment) as an individual?

Incorporating and trading under a company can't change anything done prior to that date. But anything from that point on would (in most cases) only affect the company.

There are very legitimate reasons for trading as a company not as an individual, in fact there are more reasons when there is some risk attaching to the activity (e.g. risk of being sued). So unless there was some question of fraud (most unlikely, and requiring criminal-standard proof), the fact it was formed for protection (or limited liability) is perfectly fine.

Nety

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#309177 19-Mar-2010 15:46

borgia:
Sorry for being a muppet, but the wife will slowly and brutally axe murder me if the HTPC guide implodes.....

ivan

Ah that gave me a laugh on a Friday afternoon..

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buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek
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#309178 19-Mar-2010 15:49

Slightly off-topic, but I've just had a read of the Ts&Cs at Sky's website. They do specifically mention that you cannot use any automated extraction of programming information:

Programme Listing information: In relation to the programme listing information on this website, and without limiting the foregoing, you may not remove, copy or extract any of the programme listing information by any automated means or exhibit, permit or facilitate the viewing of any or all of programme listing information in a public viewing area or via the internet or any other means of communication. You may only view the programme listing information. If you wish to make commercial use of the programme listing information you must obtain a separate licence by contacting SKY at web@skytv.co.nz.

That said, this term applies to *me* as a user of their website, not to whatever technology I could use to accomplish this.

Regrettably, I seem to have broken Sky's Terms of Use by posting the quote above, as they also say that:

You agree not to, in any way, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, distribute, store (including in electronic form) or modify the Material in whole or in part, whether in text, graphical, audio, video or executable form, without SKY’s express written permission.

I'm fairly sure I'm allowed to quote this under the Fair Use provisions of NZ's copyright legislation, however I respect Sky's Terms of Use, and so ordinarily I'd have provided a link instead. Unfortunately, the Ts&Cs also ban linking to their website without prior permission:

Links: You agree not to create any links from any external websites to this website (including deep-links) except with the prior express written permission of SKY. If you wish to obtain such permission email SKY at web@skytv.co.nz.

Dear Sky. It seems I've broken your Terms of Use at least twice in one post. Oops.

Buzzy

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Nety

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#309185 19-Mar-2010 15:59

Just wondering how they could enforce those terms of use as if you use the site normally you do not have to click or show consent in any form showing agreement to those terms before accessing the site so in short you have NOT agreed anything....

sbiddle

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#309187 19-Mar-2010 16:04

One thing to remember about those terms & conditions is that xmltvnz isn't using the SkyTV website as an EPG scraping source.

If you're not even going near their site you aren't breaking their T&C's

reven

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#309190 19-Mar-2010 16:06

buzzy: Slightly off-topic, but I've just had a read of the Ts&Cs at Sky's website. They do specifically mention that you cannot use any automated extraction of programming information:

Programme Listing information: In relation to the programme listing information on this website, and without limiting the foregoing, you may not remove, copy or extract any of the programme listing information by any automated means or exhibit, permit or facilitate the viewing of any or all of programme listing information in a public viewing area or via the internet or any other means of communication. You may only view the programme listing information. If you wish to make commercial use of the programme listing information you must obtain a separate licence by contacting SKY at web@skytv.co.nz.

but since xmltvnz doesnt use skytv.co.nz as a source, surely that has no relevance.

davidcole

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#309193 19-Mar-2010 16:09

sbiddle: One thing to remember about those terms & conditions is that xmltvnz isn't using the SkyTV website as an EPG scraping source.

If you're not even going near their site you aren't breaking their T&C's

Oh have I missed something...where does the epg data come from them if not the sky web site? If the data is coming from elsewhere and the config file or names whatever the issue has been removed then surely they don't have a leg to stand on?

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reven

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#309197 19-Mar-2010 16:15

the data comes from: tvnz, saturn, xtra mostly. prime is in the config file, but it no longer works (never got around to fixing it since 3 other sources for it). and there are a few other minor sources like triangle etc

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1985 posts

Uber Geek
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#309198 19-Mar-2010 16:18

Nety:
borgia:
Sorry for being a muppet, but the wife will slowly and brutally axe murder me if the HTPC guide implodes.....

ivan

Ah that gave me a laugh on a Friday afternoon..

Me too, but we only find it funny as it is very close to the bone...

davidcole

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#309202 19-Mar-2010 16:20

reven: the data comes from: tvnz, saturn, xtra mostly. prime is in the config file, but it no longer works (never got around to fixing it since 3 other sources for it). and there are a few other minor sources like triangle etc

But most of the sky feed come from saturn? Since I'd assume of late your tvnz, tv2, prime feeds would come from the freeview listings?

buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#309207 19-Mar-2010 16:25

reven: but since xmltvnz doesnt use skytv.co.nz as a source, surely that has no relevance.

Agreed it has no direct relevance to your case Reven, I just thought it was interesting that Sky ban any automated gathering or transformation of the program guide data from their site. I did say it was slightly off-topic :)

gb

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#309210 19-Mar-2010 16:27

buzzy: ... but I've just had a read of the Ts&Cs at Sky's website. They do specifically mention that you cannot use any automated extraction of programming information ... That said, this term applies to *me* as a user of their website, not to whatever technology I could use to accomplish this

Yes. A machine cannot be bound by terms and conditions (at least not yet - it's an interesting legal question for the future though).

Nety: Just wondering how they could enforce those terms of use as if you use the site normally you do not have to click or show consent in any form showing agreement to those terms before accessing the site so in short you have NOT agreed anything....

Standard "disclaimer" website terms of use are generally binding whether or not you've read them, and whether or not there is any "i agree" / sign-up page.

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