Sky Decoders and Freeview

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Kiwi Pete

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Topic # 11679 6-Feb-2007 11:56

With Sky running on a mixture of vertical and horizontal polarity and the Freeview bouquet on horizontal polarity how can one easily watch both on Optus D1? On my FTA decoder set to horizontal and linked to my Sky decoder I can only pick up the Freeview Text mux and the few Sky channels that are on Horizontal. Is there a date for all Sky channels to go to Horizontal? Otherwise what are my alternatives?

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Reply # 59853 6-Feb-2007 12:32

Kiwi Pete: With Sky running on a mixture of vertical and horizontal polarity and the Freeview bouquet on horizontal polarity how can one easily watch both on Optus D1? On my FTA decoder set to horizontal and linked to my Sky decoder I can only pick up the Freeview Text mux and the few Sky channels that are on Horizontal. Is there a date for all Sky channels to go to Horizontal? Otherwise what are my alternatives?

Sky currently have 4 vertically polarized transponders on D1 NZ spot beam and this will remain so. Transmissions on the horizontally polarized transponders are only for testing purposes. Once Sky decide to use horizontal they will end up with 4 vertically polarized and 4?? horizontally polarized transponders (spot beam). This obviously creates a problem using FTA decoders or even another Sky decoder connected to the same dish via only a splitter with multiroom installs needing to be rewired - would need LNB with V and H out going to a switch which also connects to each decoder. Otherwise use one or other decoder to provide the voltage to the LNB and make sure each decoder is on the same polarity (I use this solution at the moment with the FTA decoder providing the LNB voltage). If you have your Sky decoder directly connected to the 'LNB out' of your FTA decoder this is the only choice.

Ross

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Kiwi Pete

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Reply # 59861 6-Feb-2007 14:36

Tried feeding my signal through my FTA decoder and taking the signal to the My Sky decoder through then LNB out on the FTA decoder. When the FTA decoder was on horizontal to pick up the Freeview channels all I could get on My Sky were the few horizontal channels that Sky are using on D1. It has been suggested that I may have to run two cables from the LNB - one for vertical to My Sky and the other for horizontal to the FTA decoder. Does the LNB have the facility to feed two polarities at once or do I need to purchase a dual LNB? My decoders are fed mulit-room for other rooms in the house and I want to cause minimal disruption, if any, to their viewing.

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Reply # 59866 6-Feb-2007 15:43

At this stage it's very much a wait and see situation. There are still plenty of rumors doing the rounds (that aren't being confirmed or denied) that D2 will take D1's place once launched and D1 will move to 156E. This will solve the whole spot beam polarity problem. There is lots of speculation about Freeview doing the rounds at present that isn't helped by their lack of communication.

lchiu7

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Reply # 59879 6-Feb-2007 16:55

It would good when there are sufficient details to make a decision. I have a Sky dish in the house (previous owner) but it's not connected since I use TCL cable. If Freeview comes the cable and it's not compressed to death then all is well. An improved feed for TV3 would be most welcome.

If however, Freeview quality is the same as most of the TCL channels now, then I might buy a Freeview DVD-S box and access the dish that's outside, assuming it's polarised the right way (that part is a bit puzzling to me). I already purchased another capture device (Hauppauge USB2 WinTV) for my PVR so I could connect the output from the STB to this. Then potentially record two programmes at the same time - one off the cable, one off Freeview (though the likelihood of two shows at the same time I want to watch are somewhat remote)

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Spyware

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Reply # 59882 6-Feb-2007 17:32

Kiwi Pete: Tried feeding my signal through my FTA decoder and taking the signal to the My Sky decoder through then LNB out on the FTA decoder. When the FTA decoder was on horizontal to pick up the Freeview channels all I could get on My Sky were the few horizontal channels that Sky are using on D1. It has been suggested that I may have to run two cables from the LNB - one for vertical to My Sky and the other for horizontal to the FTA decoder. Does the LNB have the facility to feed two polarities at once or do I need to purchase a dual LNB? My decoders are fed mulit-room for other rooms in the house and I want to cause minimal disruption, if any, to their viewing.

I kept the old vertical B1 channels installed on the FTA decoder which supplies voltage to LNB. When I want to use the Sky decoder I switch the FTA decoder to a vertically polarised now non existant channel. Sky decoder then works as it should.

One solution to connect 4 decoders to one lnb is shown here.

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Kiwi Pete

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Reply # 59897 6-Feb-2007 19:37

Using D2 looks to be a logical and easy solution. Otherwise if Sky is a mixture of vertical and horizontal connecting Freeview to existing installations will not be "easy peasy" as the Freeview people have been implying. The average punter will get lost in the technology. If they have to get an installer in this will drastically increase the cost and decrease the rate of take up for Freeview. The winner will be Sky TV!

cyril7

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Reply # 59902 6-Feb-2007 20:23

I like all of you are just speculating, however I think Sky will move to Hpol sometime this month, problem solved. That fact that they have had Hpol transmissions on D1 on test for the last couple of months may indicate that.

The only big issue is that all multi dwelling installs with fixed PSUs feeding the LNB will need changing from 13V ones to 18V ones, this will need to be organised in advance.

To my knowledge D2 is still on track to service Foxtels need for bandwidth at 156. D2 has a quite different transponder payload to D1, so its usefullness at 160 is doubtful, although they have had time to change the setup of D2 in light of D1's stuffup.

But as there is no reason why Sky cannot take up the Hpol capacity on D1, its all there just as intended only on Hpol, this is easily the simplist way to sort this out. As I said only multidwellings are a sticking point, and thats just a simple management trick.

As I said all speculation.

Cyril

grant_k

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Reply # 59906 6-Feb-2007 20:52

Cyril7, or someone, please explain to me:

1) When Sky replaced my old LNB with a dual-throat LNB, does this mean that one throat is for H-Pol and the other for V-Pol?

2) How does MySky switch between the throats (I heard something about a 22kHz signal)?

3) Can MySky use both throats simultaneously when recording 2 channels at once?

If you can explain more about the reasons for having both H-Pol and V-Pol available through one dish, that would be helpful, as well. The Sky installer told me that the 2 throats were to allow a backup satellite to be selected, but it looks a little more complicated than that.

Thanks Guys

cyril7

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Reply # 59907 6-Feb-2007 21:03

Hi Grant, all LNB's that Sky have deployed (except a few faulty ones) can recieve both polarites. Vpol is selected when the DC volts to the LNB is between 12 and 15V, Hpol when the supply is between 15-19V.

The dual throat LNB's can see both 160E(ie B1/D1) and 156E(C1/D2 when it gets there). To switch to the 156E slot the STB must generate a 22kHz tone for the duration that it wants 156E. This is independant of the polarity, ie Hpol or Vpol can be selected regardless off the 22kHz tone.

As you will now see, the dual throat LNB's are totally useless in a dual polarity situation and dual orbita slot situation as they can only do one at a time, adding fuel to the fact that I suspect that Sky will move to Hpol in the next short while.

As yet Sky has no intention of purchasing transponders at 156E, thus it is only a security blanket should B1 or D1 fall over. However that should not rule out things that might go bump in the night in time to come.

My Sky is no different to any other STB, just it has two recievers that can act totatly independant at anytime, one again as all NZ mysky installs only support one cable to the LNB with splitters there is no way SKy can use two polaries without major disruption.

If you need to see both polarities, then you need a dual output LNB, this has two F connectors on it, each one is totally independant and can be forced via DC supply to either pol. This will happily drive two STB's or one My Sky if two polarities were deployed. To operate more than two STB's either a quad LNB or Ocal LNB would be needed (Sky UK use these) or a dual LNB and a Mulit Switch. With a Multi Switch it has two inputs one supplin 13V the other 18V to a dual LNB. The output of the switch can be 2, 4 or 8 outputs depending on what voltage the STB connected to each outputs supplies depends on which LNB polartity the switch presents to the STB.,

Cyril

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Reply # 59908 6-Feb-2007 21:21

Cool, thanks Cyril, you have expanded my knowledge of LNBs by a heap

Now I understand what you were saying about 18V power supplies being needed for multi-dwelling installs with fixed PSUs.

I am guessing that Sky's standard STBs and also MySky have both the 13V and 18V supply voltages available internally?

All of this makes much more sense now, thanks again

Kiwi Pete

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Reply # 59912 6-Feb-2007 21:57

I presume that TVNZ had no choice but to go to D1 H Pol. The fact it lacks compatibility with Sky must be a concern to TVNZ and the Freeview consortium. Is D2 due to be launched before Freeview supposedly starts officially in late April

cyril7

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Reply # 59951 7-Feb-2007 09:00

Grant, all DVB-S STB's have a controlled psu for this purpose. The average LNB draws around 150mA, most STB's quote a maximum of 500mA LNB supply current so you can drive line amps, switches aswell as the LNB.

On all the FTA STB's ive got and used, when setting the parameters for a particular transponder you enter freq, symbol rate, sometime FEC rate but most modern STB's automatically sort that one, and Polarity. Sky obviously set theres in their firmware without user intervention.

Now this last point is a small issue, I understood that the current Sky firmware when booted headed straight for 12.519GHz (Transponder5) Vpol and started searching for PAT and NIT tables and other NDS proprietary setup tables in the stream to tell the box where where to find things including other tranponder frequencies/polarities. If Sky do change to Hpol then the firmware will eventually need to be changed to tell it to boot to 12.519GHz/Hpol. Currently 12.519GHz is one of the test transmissions that is on both polarities, so I guess this is how they can get around a transition period until new firmware is released to change the boot parameters.

KiwiPete, D2 is scheduled for late07. As I said earlier, I doubt D2 will be redeployed at 160E, as Foxtel have been promised D2 later this year, and have scheduled new services (including HD) based on D2 being there. As I mentioned earlier, D2 has a significantly different payload to D1, infact it does not carry half the transponders D1 carries in the mid/upper Ku band that NZ is allowed to operate. To service foxtels needs it will be operating in the lower Ku band to complement the transponders the C1 carries. Ie, I am pretty sure D2 will not end up at 160E.

Cyril

Kiwi Pete

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Reply # 59966 7-Feb-2007 10:43

Thanks Cyril. Reading all the comments to my original post it still seems that if Sky does not change to H pol many people purchasing a Freeview decoder and looping their Sky feed through could be in for a nasty shock like I got yesterday when I looped through. I could only access the H pol Sky Channels such as 25, 10, 20 and a few others - roughly about a third of the available channels. Currently I have a My Sky, plus a 2nd Pace Sky, and two FTA decoders. These are distributed around the house from a central point in the lounge. Before I doing anything drastic to my set up I think I'll wait and see if Sky do go to H Pol. Don't want any more wires in the lounge!