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tukapa1

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#119313 28-May-2013 07:48
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Hi all

Just about to wire up a new house (3 level) for audio, video, data and IR distribution.

Just tossing up whether to go with a distribution hub or just to distribute directly from behind the AV cabinet.

There are pros and cons for both but would be interested in your thoughts.

The ground floor will only have phone and data.

The first floor will have phone and data as well as a rumpus room with large wall mounted flat screen and all the electronic goodies (AV receiver, MySky and Blu-ray) in an AV cabinet as well as 5.1 surround.  There will also be another wall mounted flat screen in the lounge with ceiling speakers in the lounge and dining area just for a 2nd zone source from the AV receiver in the rumpus room.

The second floor will have another flat screen with data and phone.

All areas with flat screen will also have IR sensors back to the AV gear.

Planning on running cat6 for phone, data and IR distribution.  Tossing up whether to distribute HDMI via cat6 or direct runs of HDMI.  Will have MySky in the AV cabinet and an HDMI splitter to all flat screens.

Will have a centrally based router and will probably install access points on each floor to give a reasonable wifi coverage.

I plan on running multiple runs of RG6 for Sky and Freeview.

Haven't installed a hub before but have done the direct distrinution from behind the AV cabinet and it worked well.

As an aside - do sparkies normally run the phone lines when doing their install?  I must ask the sparkie that.

I intend to future proof as much as possible by running multiple cat6 to each room - cheap enough to do before the gib goes on.

If anybody has a good source for the distribution hub hardware I would be interested in a point in the right direction.

Finally - I can't see anything that states you have to be qualified or certified in any particular thing to run audio, video or data cabling in a residential address.  Is that correct?

Hope that all makes sense - I look forward to your replies.

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Disrespective
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  #826791 28-May-2013 08:54
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I haven't sat down and completely interpreted everything you've said above but a few things come to mind.

For any new build my office gets involved with (i'm an architect) we always suggest the use of a patch panel. We then place all AV/data equipment in the same location and use the cat6 for data/video/ir. It means one run of RG6 to the patch panel location for TV equipment, one phone connection point and filter (depending on configuration preferences) and a central location for troubleshooting problems.

The patch panel also makes upgrading equipment, re-routing connections simpler. The location doesn't have to be in a separate room/cubby/alcove, it can be anywhere. We normally suggest under the stairs or close to a circuit board for simplicity. It allows us to easily run anything into any room without too much trouble. If we have a tv location, we'll use one data point for video and the other for IR extending. If the owner wants to update their tv firmware via the internet, in theory, all they'd have to do is re-route the IR extender data point to an internet connection on their patch panel and it's connected up.

As an aside, for almost every double power point we suggest a double data/rj45 back to the patch panel. Exclusions are power points in the bathrooms, hallways, parts of the kitchen where nothing will be in front of the power points.

Also, I believe the longest run of HDMI that you can safely do is about 15m. If you're talking about 3 floors it's unlikely you will be able to run HDMI around easily... depending on where you want it of course.

trig42
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  #826795 28-May-2013 09:01
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+1 to everything said above.

You should also run RG6 from your central point to everywhere you may put a TV - it just makes it easier to plug a digital TV in.

 
 
 
 


davidcole
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  #826800 28-May-2013 09:09
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Also, I believe the longest run of HDMI that you can safely do is about 15m. If you're talking about 3 floors it's unlikely you will be able to run HDMI around easily... depending on where you want it of course.


I believe there are some new directional HDMI cables (one way - embedded amplifier) that can do long runs. - Redmere is the name.  CablesDirect.co.nz sell them (as well has HDMI to cat 5e/6 baluns)




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Disrespective
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  #826805 28-May-2013 09:20
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davidcole: I believe there are some new directional HDMI cables (one way - embedded amplifier) that can do long runs. - Redmere is the name.  CablesDirect.co.nz sell them (as well has HDMI to cat 5e/6 baluns)
They look very interesting, thanks for pointing them out. I couldn't care less about using directional cables if they're that thin. Reading some reviews now. 

timmmay
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  #826808 28-May-2013 09:24
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Just a thought, my home entertainment unit current uses 4 ethernet ports (TV, receiver, PS3, Raspberry Pi) and I can see that it may expand later. I'd put in 8 ports there, though it may be easier to put in a little switch than run all that cable.

davidcole
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  #826810 28-May-2013 09:26
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Disrespective:
davidcole: I believe there are some new directional HDMI cables (one way - embedded amplifier) that can do long runs. - Redmere is the name.  CablesDirect.co.nz sell them (as well has HDMI to cat 5e/6 baluns)
They look very interesting, thanks for pointing them out. I couldn't care less about using directional cables if they're that thin. Reading some reviews now. 


Only thing you need to watch is if you Audio Receiver uses the HDMI Audio return path from the TV as this wont work.

But something to add to your arsenal.

I'm curious about you comment
Disrepective: We then place all AV/data equipment in the same location and use the cat6 for data/video/ir. It means one run of RG6 to the patch panel location for TV equipment


So just a single run to the telly?  I would have thought a minimum of 2, one for permanent network, and one for the video signal.





Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


Disrespective
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  #826813 28-May-2013 09:33
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davidcole: I'm curious about you comment
Disrepective: We then place all AV/data equipment in the same location and use the cat6 for data/video/ir. It means one run of RG6 to the patch panel location for TV equipment


So just a single run to the telly?  I would have thought a minimum of 2, one for permanent network, and one for the video signal.


The RG6 is just from the sky dish. If we had an aerial on the roof, too, then we'd run a second RG6 to the patch panel room and use splitters to each device from whichever aerial/dish. This is signal cable, not Cat6 data cable... Each television location gets a double power and a double data which runs back to the patch panel for video and ir extending. 

 
 
 
 


Zeon
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  #826818 28-May-2013 09:47
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I'd go for cat6. HDMI may be gone in 5 years time with 4k or who knows what but catX cable seems to obsolesce quite slowly. 




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nickb800
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  #826845 28-May-2013 10:37
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Sparkies normally run phone lines around the house, so you will need to clear up where their work finishes and yours starts if you want to DIY data/video/etc. Normally they supply an electrical plan so you can work from that.

We did a new build last year and I did the data/phone/tv myself. Agreed with the sparky for him to bring the phone cable to the side of the house (since he was trenching for the power anyway) and I took over from the demark.

No legal limitations on running your own data/tv/phone afaik, just observe correct seperation from mains cables (for safety, but also to minimise interference)

I'd run Cat6, with HDMI over baluns, as mentioned above Cat5e/6 will likely be the next AV cable standard

tukapa1

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  #827608 29-May-2013 11:26
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Thanks everyone - some helpful info there.

I would be happy running all the hardware directly from the AV cabinet with distribution from the rear but the AV cabinet may be built in to the space so if it's not removable then getting behind to do any maintenance or make any changes will be a nightmare.

Looking at using in-wall and/or in ceiling speakers in the 5.1 setup in the theatre room as the owner doesn't want speakers standing out in the room.  Might be a problem for the sub though.

I have been planning doing the long HDMI runs over cat6 due to the limitation of HDMI cable (although I used 20m HDMI cables in my own build and have had no issues).  I was looking at something like the HDMI1H4C6 (scroll to the bottom) for the HDMI distribution.  With the AV receiver being in the same place as the flat screen in the rumpus room the HDMI out can be used to link that TV.  Then the remaining 3 cat6 outs can be used for the remaining long runs.  Failing that (as there doesn't seem to be any stock) would these do the job from a normal 4 way HDMI splitter?

Some good links to monoprice have been found for all the wallplates etc for the fit off so that may be an option depending on shipping times.

I was definitely wanting to use a patch panel for distribution so that's why I was thinking a centrally located hub but am having an issue finding some varied sources for the home distribution hub hardware and accessories.  Has anybody got a good reliable source for this stuff?

As far as running RG6 for Sky and freeview - where should I run the cabling to for hooking up when Sky is installed?  I've looked at neighbouring houses and can see where their dishes are installed so know roughly where the dish will go.  If I just leave a heap of RG6 at that rough point will that be sweet for the Sky installer?  Also how many runs for the Sky dish and how many for a Freeview UHF aerial?

Thanks again.

chevrolux
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  #827623 29-May-2013 11:37
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I would be happy running all the hardware directly from the AV cabinet with distribution from the rear but the AV cabinet may be built in to the space so if it's not removable then getting behind to do any maintenance or make any changes will be a nightmare.

Sliding trays and cable slack will be your friend =) I built a cubboard for mine and after about a week I installed sliding trays for the amplifier and sky decoder to sit on. Just used normal sliders for drawers but replaced the drawer with a bit of custom board.

DarthKermit
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  #827671 29-May-2013 12:25
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chevrolux:

I would be happy running all the hardware directly from the AV cabinet with distribution from the rear but the AV cabinet may be built in to the space so if it's not removable then getting behind to do any maintenance or make any changes will be a nightmare.

Sliding trays and cable slack will be your friend =) I built a cubboard for mine and after about a week I installed sliding trays for the amplifier and sky decoder to sit on. Just used normal sliders for drawers but replaced the drawer with a bit of custom board.


Sounds like a good plan. Would you mind posting a pic of your setup?




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nickb800
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  #827731 29-May-2013 14:14
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tukapa1: 
As far as running RG6 for Sky and freeview - where should I run the cabling to for hooking up when Sky is installed?  I've looked at neighbouring houses and can see where their dishes are installed so know roughly where the dish will go.  If I just leave a heap of RG6 at that rough point will that be sweet for the Sky installer?  Also how many runs for the Sky dish and how many for a Freeview UHF aerial?

Thanks again.


I think you will be fine with 1xRG6 for Satellite and 1xRG6 for UHF. Your plan sounds fine - I did the same, leaving a few meters of extra cable coiled up in the ceiling space, ready for the sky installer and myself (for UHF) to punch a hole in the roof/gable and then terminate it and connect to the dish/antenna

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