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8 posts

Wannabe Geek


# 140838 21-Feb-2014 19:58
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Hi all,

I'm the process of finalising quotes for a new build and wanted to get some ideas/feedback with wiring for TV, home entertainment, internet etc. I've read quite a bit, but I'm still trying to get my head around the best way to approach home wiring. The house is 3 bedroom, 2 living areas and a study (and a 2 story house). I'm planning to place the patchbay/star location in the home office.

I've attached two pictures of the house plans with my proposed wiring superimposed.  The location of data points etc are approximate (they are placed in the correct rooms):





Main questions:

1. I'm not sure of the best way to tackle HDMI distribution to multiple rooms. The main entertainment area will be in the open plan kitchen/dining/living, with DVD, SkyTV and Xbox there. Is it better to place a HDMI 4x4 matrix in that location and then run the cat 6 via extenders from there to the other rooms? Or should it be done like in my diagram where the HDMI matrix would be in the patchbay and then redistributed from there? The second option seems like a lot of extra cabling to take the HDMI to the star point before then 

2. Do you think that I've got enough wiring, or are there obvious things that I'm missing?  

3. Any idea what you think the above fit out might cost for installing of all the cabling and supplying of the patchaby (I would provide the HDMI matrix and other bits and pieces from monoprice or similiar). Reason I ask is, we've had a couple of electrical quotes, one that was ok, though I still thought was high, and one that claimed doing the HDMI distribution would cost $20K alone (which I thought was outrageous?).  

Thanks,

Tim



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8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 991970 21-Feb-2014 20:00
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Sorry, those images are a bit small to see. Originals here:

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/76045381bd0710e43818aa2d56f3845e.jpg 
https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/f8f11e409e5170e6aa9e4d1502ca916a.jpg 

Tim

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  # 991979 21-Feb-2014 20:24
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Nice house! Wife commented on the Laundry shute in the wardrobe straight away.

No expert in what you are asking, but a couple of things I noted/queried

Absence of smoke detectors in bedrooms, I think they should be mandatory with the number of power charging and device transformers as well as things that always get left on nowadays.

Not sure of the extent to which the home theatre would be but have you considered running speaker cable to various locations in the lounge, including 2 speakers out on the deck.

Is it worth cabling for having the tv in the lounge on the (?north) wall at the stairs - not sure if its a half height wall or not.

Is it worth running an ethernet cable into the roof for an AP?

My wife has started watching on demand tv on ipad in the kitchen while baking/cooking as I cant get an aerial in there for a small flatscreen (hey it keeps her in the kitchen :P)
Is there any possibility of that need arising?

Just thought I would throw some ideas out there, good luck with the build

 
 
 
 


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  # 992011 21-Feb-2014 21:20
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saxtim: 



Main questions:

1. I'm not sure of the best way to tackle HDMI distribution to multiple rooms. The main entertainment area will be in the open plan kitchen/dining/living, with DVD, SkyTV and Xbox there. Is it better to place a HDMI 4x4 matrix in that location and then run the cat 6 via extenders from there to the other rooms? Or should it be done like in my diagram where the HDMI matrix would be in the patchbay and then redistributed from there? The second option seems like a lot of extra cabling to take the HDMI to the star point before then 

2. Do you think that I've got enough wiring, or are there obvious things that I'm missing?  

3. Any idea what you think the above fit out might cost for installing of all the cabling and supplying of the patchaby (I would provide the HDMI matrix and other bits and pieces from monoprice or similiar). Reason I ask is, we've had a couple of electrical quotes, one that was ok, though I still thought was high, and one that claimed doing the HDMI distribution would cost $20K alone (which I thought was outrageous?).  

Thanks,

Tim




Hi Tim

1.  The best way to tackle HDMI distribution would be to go for a HDBaseT Matrix, you use a single Cat6 cable (shielded if you can) and attach at the TV end the receiver with POE, $4+K for an Atlona 4x4 HDBaseT switch retail in NZ, but it does come with a 10 year warranty, they also do 6x6, 8x8 and more.  $20K seems really outrageous for a 4x4 unless they are pricing you an 8x8 plus installation or Business grade HD modulator and installation?  

Don't cheap out on the matrix if you go down this route, I have dealt with dozens of "quality" Chinese made matrix's that just do not last the distance and fail continuously.  You DO pay for what you get with these appliances.

You can get DVB-T HD modulators and send to all screens using Coax cable, but I do not know of any residential/consumer grade units that are HDCP compliant in NZ, there are units on Alibaba.com and other sites but it is always a risk in getting the unknown.  I have a local importer who is at present sourcing units that will be HDCP compliant.

2.  There are plenty of other "extras" that you could look into for wiring......alarm, security cameras (POE), wireless AP's, Control systems (like IR from your TV's back to the patch panel), whole house distributed audio etc......

3.  The price would purely depend on your final plan, type of cabling used etc.....

If you have an AV/data guy that is local, get him to look at your plans, it may cost you a couple of hours of his/her time, but it will be worth it in the end.

Good luck.





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  # 992022 21-Feb-2014 21:25
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Just to keep in the OT. I thought smoke alarms are mandatory in new houses?

You should go for 230 volt detectors, since a lot of the problems that are with smoke detectors are usually that the batteries are dead.

If you want to go with something state of the art, look at Nest Protect: https://nest.com/uk/ - You can get information from the smoke detector to your smart phone, and they can also be sensors in the Nest thermostat system.




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  # 992082 21-Feb-2014 22:45
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jarledb: Just to keep in the OT. I thought smoke alarms are mandatory in new houses?

You should go for 230 volt detectors, since a lot of the problems that are with smoke detectors are usually that the batteries are dead.

If you want to go with something state of the art, look at Nest Protect: https://nest.com/uk/ - You can get information from the smoke detector to your smart phone, and they can also be sensors in the Nest thermostat system.


Will they work here in NZ on AC power?




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  # 992119 21-Feb-2014 23:58
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There should be no problem using the UK version of the Nest in NZ. See https://nest.com/uk/smoke-co-alarm/installation/#install-your-protect where you can see how its all set up - including how to install the 230 volt version.




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  # 992136 22-Feb-2014 00:24
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Have you thought about using CAT6 and PoE for your lights and smoke detectors? It's the future IMO. 230v for a smoke detecotr lol wut





 
 
 
 


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  # 992150 22-Feb-2014 07:17
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run 2x cat 6 cables to each location so you can use both phone and Ethernet from the same faceplate. it also doesn't cost that much more.

have you thought of putting your home theater equipment in the patch panel/star location? and running 1x hdmi to each location from there and 1x IR extender kit? will mean less wiring behind the main tv and look much tidier

also for the short distance you need hdmi to travel have you thought of just putting hdmi cables in the walls? and using hdmi to hdmi wall plate a 4x4 matrix at the star point? you can put your DVD, SkyTV and Xbox in there


also consider the cabling to the ETP for fiber/copper

im in a similar boat to you, currently designing the house though and also considering the wiring choices and how its all going to work together

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  # 992161 22-Feb-2014 08:10
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Zeon: Have you thought about using CAT6 and PoE for your lights and smoke detectors? It's the future IMO. 230v for a smoke detecotr lol wut


The biggest problem with a POE lighting system in NZ is the regulations to get the down lights certified for code of compliance, they need to be insulated rated. The cost involved is quite large per testing batch, so at present there are no downlights certified for installation using a POE designed system in a new home build. It may be the future and is an exciting design with the potential to change the way we wire our homes, but it will always cost a lot more to implement than 230 volt LED lights at present.

In saying this, I have POE downlights working in our house, with a battery back up for when the power goes out and all controlled by iDevices. This can be done to an existing home, just not to a new build. The product is LumenCache, which we have been part of for the last x2 years and it is an exciting product, they will be certifying their range of downlights for the NZ market, but it is a waiting game for us before complete launch.





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  # 992248 22-Feb-2014 11:31
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Zeon: Have you thought about using CAT6 and PoE for your lights and smoke detectors? It's the future IMO. 230v for a smoke detecotr lol wut


Could you give me a single link to a PoE powered smoke detector?




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  # 992253 22-Feb-2014 11:46
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Just a few thoughts:
1) Don't cable for telephone specifically, wire for multiple data outlets everywhere, and patch them for telephones as necessary. Not sure about labour cost (I DIY'd my structured cabling) but turning a single data outlet into a double data outlet has a marginal cost of less than $50 depending on the cable run lenght
2) If a sparky quoted $20k for HDMI, he might not be talking about HDMI over Cat6, and could be thinking of running actual HDMI cables everywhere (of course you know that running it over Cat6 is cheaper on longer runs)
3) Mains powered, battery backup smoke detectors are pretty standard, your sparky will know but I'd guess a couple on each floor in communal (hallway etc) spaces. They are very sensitive so wouldn't worry about bedrooms, also the flashing light would distract some people sleeping. Fun thing about mains powered battery backup smoke detectors is that they still beep at you at 3am if the battery runs low, even though they have mains power

Have fun on the structured cabling journey, you won't regret it!

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  # 992293 22-Feb-2014 12:55
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Regarding smoke alarms, yes they should be in all houses, however wouldn't they be on the main electrical plan, not on this one. Also is it a good idea to get wired in ones? You can now get them with 10 year batteries, which negates the need now to wire them in, unless you are hooking them up to a central alarm. The sensors also need replacing after a period of time, which makes the 10 year ones a good option IMO.

Regarding hdmi, wouldn't you be better to run some long hdmi cables using pigtail plates? You distances don't look that large. Also  not sure if you have enough Ethernet ports. Perhaps if you write down what you intend using a each location. Not sure if WiFi is reducing the need for expensive wired home networks these days, especially in small compact houses like this one.



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  # 992543 22-Feb-2014 20:35
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Thanks for all the thoughts.

In regards to smoke alarms - they will be wired in.

In regards to HDbaseT - looks great, but probably out of my budget, I'm probably only looking to spend up to a few hundred dollars on a HDMI 4x4 matrix. I figure in the future too that if I have the cat6 wiring there, I can always upgrade to the HDbaseT matrix and extenders if needed.

In regards to the HDMI - I'm looking at the following products:

http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/hdmi-2/hdmi-matrix-switcher/high-end-4x4-hdmi-true-matrix-super-slim.html
http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/hdmi-wallplate-extender-over-cat5e-6-30m-extension.html

With these I figure I should be able to take care of the HDMI distribution effectively for not too much cost.

I'm still struggling about where to place the HDMI matrix. Given that the main TV area is upstairs and the star point is downstairs, I'm not sure it is completely practical placing all the AV equipment at the star point. If I did I'd have to walk downstairs to change a DVD or an Xbox game. So I'm inclinded to place the HDMI matrix along with all the AV gear in the main TV area and then run the HDMI distribution from there. This would also use less cable. This effectively is a second star point distributing the HDMI - are there issues with this?

Thanks,

Tim

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  # 993254 24-Feb-2014 12:21
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I'd want to test any kind of HDMI over cat6 solution before committing to it (in fact anything HDMI).  I looked into it but it seems you have to be very precise with equal lengths etc, which could be quite hard to do for in-wall installations.

I ran two cat6 cables to everywhere but 1 location.  <- That one I regret because it really should have at least two!  I ran 6 to my HT rack just to be safe.

I reckon I will end up doing some kind of IP solution with H264, rather than HDMI.

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  # 993373 24-Feb-2014 14:55
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Swanny: I'd want to test any kind of HDMI over cat6 solution before committing to it (in fact anything HDMI).  I looked into it but it seems you have to be very precise with equal lengths etc, which could be quite hard to do for in-wall installations.

I ran two cat6 cables to everywhere but 1 location.  <- That one I regret because it really should have at least two!  I ran 6 to my HT rack just to be safe.

I reckon I will end up doing some kind of IP solution with H264, rather than HDMI.


you can get hdmi that runs over 1x cat 5e/6 cable these days

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