Freeview tv3/c4 widescreen issues?

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euanandrews

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#15951 17-Sep-2007 22:05

Whats the story with Canwest's tv3 and c4 widescreen issues?

Having just got Freeview, I notice One, 2, the Maori channel and TVNZ Sports Extra are all fullscreen/widescreen, but 3 and c4 go in and out of widescreen, which is really annoying...

Whats the story with that?

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#86940 17-Sep-2007 22:24

You mean when they have content which isn't 16:9 and you get the borders?

openmedia

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#86942 17-Sep-2007 22:27

TheBartender: Whats the story with Canwest's tv3 and c4 widescreen issues?

Having just got Freeview, I notice One, 2, the Maori channel and TVNZ Sports Extra are all fullscreen/widescreen, but 3 and c4 go in and out of widescreen, which is really annoying...

Whats the story with that?

For details see the TVNZ page at http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1294889

As of the 22nd September expect to see the same mix of full/wide on TV One and TV 2.

Steve

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

euanandrews

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#86943 17-Sep-2007 22:32

Fossie: You mean when they have content which isn't 16:9 and you get the borders?

I mean those two channels go in and out of widescreen...

Having the pitcure cut/having borders at the top and bottom is normal, and changes from program to program which is fine...
No what I mean is there are many times when those two channels have borders all round, left right, top and bottom...

So in effect its like having a 21inch pitcure on a 29inch tv......

Whats up with that?

euanandrews

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#86944 17-Sep-2007 22:37

openmedia: For details see the TVNZ page at http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1294889

As of the 22nd September expect to see the same mix of full/wide on TV One and TV 2.

Steve

TVNZ channels are not an issue, they either remain fullscreen or widescreen.

Its Canwest's channels, tv3 and C4....
It seems not all there programing has been modified/upgraded to widescreen

Fossie

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#86945 17-Sep-2007 22:37

That is normal. Something widescreen that was chopped down to 4:3 but then sent on a 16:9 channel.

Regs

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#86951 17-Sep-2007 23:01

Is your Freeview box set to output to a Widescreen (16:9) TV? If not then it may be "4:3 letterboxing" the "16:9 letterboxed" 4:3 signal....

if this is the case then your TV may be autosizing the widescreen stuff to full sceen if it has a smart zoom mode which might make it appear that widescreen signals are working correctly

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openmedia

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#86955 17-Sep-2007 23:57

TheBartender:
openmedia: For details see the TVNZ page at http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1294889

As of the 22nd September expect to see the same mix of full/wide on TV One and TV 2.

Steve

TVNZ channels are not an issue, they either remain fullscreen or widescreen.

Its Canwest's channels, tv3 and C4....
It seems not all there programing has been modified/upgraded to widescreen

I gave the reference as you will notice the same issue on TVNZ when they go wide.

Basically there are multiple sources being shown on TV3/C4

1. True widescreen - shown 16:9
2. 4.3 Shown in a 16:9 frame "pillar boxed" with borders left/right
3. 14:9 shown in a 16:9 frame with minor borders left right, plus borders top+bottom
4. 16:9 material originally shown 4:3 with borders top and bottom, which has then been pillarboxed

Your biggest problems are generally with options 3+4

Best bet is to complain to TV3 and C4.

Steve

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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cyril7

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#86961 18-Sep-2007 07:52

The issue you are seeing is when viewing on a 4:3 display with the STB in 4:3LB (LetterBox or CentreCut) and 4:3 material is played out by the broadcaster. In this situation you get a postage stamp. And this is perfectly correct and also the way TVNZ will handle 4:3 material as from midday this coming sunday.

This was covered at some length previously when Canwest went to 16:9.

Essentially the broadcasters (including TVNZ as from midday 22/9/07) operate their playout transmission chain locked in 16:9 at all times. The entire playout arena only understands 16:9 material, there is no aspect ratio switching or manipulation of aspect ratio in the playout arena as all material is in 16:9.

However any 4:3 material that is recieved inbound to the broadcaster from program suppliers and news sources is immediatly upon recipt converted into 16:9 frames by pillarboxing, ie side borders are applied. Once converted the now 16:9 framed 4:3 material is ingested and forever more treated as 16:9, albeit with bars to the side.

If you have a 4:3 TV with the STB set to 4:3LB then you will see bars as the result of the 4:3LB conversion in the STB at all times, however 16:9 frames will be correctly shown on your 4:3 display, and as per the above explanation any 4:3 material will appear with the additional bars to the left and right within the 16:9 frame as placed by the broadcaster at ingestion, hence will appear postage stamp.

This is completely normal, the broadaster is being totally consistant and has correctly configured thier network for 16:9 operation, 4:3 material (especially if displayed on 4:3 displays) is disadvantaged, but as time moves on less and less 4:3 material will exist, this is why TVNZ delayed there original 1July start of 16:9 till now, so to arrange all(as much as possible) of their source programs in 16:9.

The reason you think TVNZ is doing things correctly is simply that currently they are still operating a 4:3 network, any 16:9 material is being aspect ratio converted on recipt to 14:9 within 4:3 frames (thus small bars top and bottom). As your STB is in 4:3LB it is being signaled from TVNZ as 4:3 therefore any top and bottom bars are added at the studio not in your STB. However this method is a 4:3 transmission system that disadvantages 16:9 material, as of midday 22/9/07 TVNZ will become a 16:9 broadcaster as TVNZ is now.

Just to reiterate, Canwest are locked in 16:9 mode at all times, the 16:9 flags are always set, its the material within the 16:9 frames that is changing to maintain correct aspect ratio on that 16:9 system.

Cyril

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#86968 18-Sep-2007 08:37

That has to be the best simple description in simple English I've yet read cyril7! It's far better than the technical explanations all the networks have tried to get across.

It's just a shame that there is still so much 4:3 content screened on TV3, I even laugh when I see some of TV3's own promo trailers in 4:3 rather than 16:9! When you have major news networks who still specify all content in 4:3 however you realise the issue isn't something that it going to change overnight.

PromNZ

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#86984 18-Sep-2007 10:30

Yes but bear in mind that the promo material 3 & 4 use is still based on the original source. So if the show is 4x3 converted, the entire promo will be 4x3 converted. The imagery, etc is modified for aesthetics only, to 4x3 converted.

The worst to see is 4 x3 manually letterboxed by some editor who think it makes the vision look film like, in widescreen you just get postage stamp size (black bars left and right due to 4x3 upsacling, and black bars top and bottom due to the manual letterboxing done) .

allstarnz

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#86992 18-Sep-2007 11:32

that's what I do like about Sky. They will set their 16:9 flag individually depending on the program. How hard would this be for other providers to do? Surely they don't have to have some monkey sitting there doing it all day?

cshwone

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#86994 18-Sep-2007 11:39

However, I get exactly the same effect as the original poster describes with the Sky TV3 feed. Don't know about C4, never watched it!

cyril7

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#86995 18-Sep-2007 11:42

Worldwide network type broadcasters (ie FTA commercial channels like TVNZ/CanWest) have universally moved from the old model to a fixed flag arrangment. In UK and Europe it was common practice to flag all material and leave the STB/Display to sort it out, but this is both combersome to handle for the broadcasters and can result in a lot of glitching on some STB's and displays.

Hence most Euro broadcasters are moving away from active flaging and nailing their services full time 16:9, it overcomes a major headache for them.

The likes of Skys movie channels that have rare changes of flags and would be very annoying to watch complete 4:3 movies in postage stamp then it makes sense, but for commercial type channels with continual switching the model CanWest and TVNZ have moved toward also makes sense. It will be interesting to see what Sky does with the likes of Sky1 and Prime as they move more of their servces to 16:9 as My Wellington is upgraded. I suspect those channels will move the way of TVNZ/CanWest.

CShwone, the Sky feeds of TV3 carry the same 16:9 feed as FreeView, hence the same. TV1/2 will follow suit on Sky as of midday sunday.

Cyril

richms

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#86997 18-Sep-2007 11:47

What really annoys me is that the set top boxes have no provision for watching 4:3 channels on a 16:9 tv, so you have to flick the aspect ratio of the TV back and forth between 3 and 2 so that the TV does the pillarboxing. Bloody annoying...

I know that in theory the TV should autodetect the format when its on auto mode, but some brainiac at panasonic has left that off lots of their tv's for some reason.

Richard rich.ms

old3eyes

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#87011 18-Sep-2007 12:50

richms: What really annoys me is that the set top boxes have no provision for watching 4:3 channels on a 16:9 tv,

Why on earth would you want to watch a 4:3 channel in "Fatovision" for?? Thats the one thing that annoys me when you walk into the boxseller. All their HD TVs showing broadcast TV are set to "Fatovision" rather than 4:3 or they should show 16:9 content

Regards,

Old3eyes

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