DVB Subtitles not complete

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barlowdog

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# 19047 3-Feb-2008 12:23

I recently purchased a Hyundai STB/PVR in order to be able to record Freeview programmes with subtites.
This looked like the answer to a prayer for hearing impaired people as VCR's with this capability have not been available in NZ for some time.
The system works - to a point - the problem being that the subtitles are not complete with part or whole sentences of the script missing.
The severity of the problem seems to vary between channels and different programmes.
I have since read about this on this forum and others both in NZ and the UK.
I can't work out though whether the problem lies in the STB decoding software or the data stream coming from the satellite.
Does anyone have the latest information on why this is ocurring and what, if anything, anyone is doing about it?
My STB is a Hyundai HSS-880HCI+
Software ver: HSS880 T 1.09
Last Update: Nov 23 2007
Any help or information would be most appreciated.

Spyware

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# 108283 3-Feb-2008 13:02

It would be logical to assume that the set top box is the cause of the issue given I don't think they'll change the stream to your specs. All you can do is upgrade firmware. My Topfield TF5000CI also has issues with DVB subtitles.

Ross

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sub

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# 108388 4-Feb-2008 02:04

Its worth noting that we dont use 'DVB Subtitles' in New Zealand. Our Freeview system uses the old 'Teletext Subtitles' transmitted over DVB. This is different from the UK, where they use the 'DVB Subtitles' system. They are not the same thing.

barlowdog

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# 108492 4-Feb-2008 14:17

Thanks. That's all very interesting but I'm no nearer finding out what the real issue is and if anything can be done about it.
It sounds like the Topfield and Hyundai STB/PVR's both have this problem with incomplete subtitles but does anyone out there know if there is a digital receiver that doesn't have the problem (prefereably a PVR).

Cheers
Ted

BarTender

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# 108502 4-Feb-2008 14:49

I would normally assume that if your TV supports Teletext then you should be fine. Wouldn't you normally just go to Page 801 (or what ever it is?!) on the TV, and the Teletext subtitles are picked up by the TV, as long as the STB is passing through the out-of-band Teletext codes as part of the picture, but perhaps the STB is stripping it out so the TV can't pick up the Teletext.

I do know that my Dreambox supports Teletext (germans love that stuff!), but never bothered to see if it works or not with the page 801 or whatever page the subtitles are on.

I will however give it a bash tonight and see if they come up for me or not... I know TV1 News has subtitles via Teletext so will try and give it a go then, as I am not hard of hearing (my wife may disagree :) I havn't needed to check, will update you tomorrow.

richms

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# 108515 4-Feb-2008 16:57

AFAIK all dvb receivers support teletext insertion.

What the OP wants is teletext decode so that the subtitles are in the picture that leave the box so that they can be recorded in the picture. Recording the VBI never produces a usable signal, sometimes you get enough popping up to see the time that something was recorded on VHS, never anything on DVD. There were in the past VHS decks with a teletext decoder for this purpose, but no more and they were really expensive ones too.

Richard rich.ms

barlowdog

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# 108544 4-Feb-2008 18:48

Thanks for those replies.
We had a VCR that recorded subtitles, a Grundog and yes it was expensive, over $1200 10 years ago.
Sadly the tape drive mechanism broke recently, whick is why we bought the PVR.
On the Hyundai the subtitles are turned on by pressing the Audio button on the remote and selecting the subtitle track.
You can also bring them up by turning the Teletext on and selecting page 801 like on the TV.
The problem with this though is that the dark Teletext page background stays on (unlike the TV) so you can't see the picture - not much good!
The Audio button works ok and the subtitles are displayed and record ok to the HDD.
The only problem is they are not complete with in some cases whole sentences of text missing.
As you can imagine for a hearing impaired person this is worse than useless as it is hard enough to keep up with the programme when all the text is there and in sync.
After experimenting a little more it seems this problem is much worse on TV1, so why would that be?

Cheers

Spyware

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# 108567 4-Feb-2008 21:19

sub: Its worth noting that we dont use 'DVB Subtitles' in New Zealand. Our Freeview system uses the old 'Teletext Subtitles' transmitted over DVB. This is different from the UK, where they use the 'DVB Subtitles' system. They are not the same thing.

TV3 have subtitles via Teletext only BUT TV1 and TV2 appear to have subtitles available via the subtitles button (DVB subtitles?) on my STB remote. Topfield STB displays two distinct symbols for Teletext and subtitles in OSD on TV1 and TV2 only.

Ross

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sub

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# 108587 5-Feb-2008 00:58

Spyware:
sub: Its worth noting that we dont use 'DVB Subtitles' in New Zealand. Our Freeview system uses the old 'Teletext Subtitles' transmitted over DVB. This is different from the UK, where they use the 'DVB Subtitles' system. They are not the same thing.

TV3 have subtitles via Teletext only BUT TV1 and TV2 appear to have subtitles available via the subtitles button (DVB subtitles?) on my STB remote. Topfield STB displays two distinct symbols for Teletext and subtitles in OSD on TV1 and TV2 only.

I'll check it when I'm back in NZ next week, but I'm fairly certain they dont transmit any DVB subtitles (only teletext). Last time I checked with TVNZ they indicated they only intended to use Teletext.

richms

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# 108588 5-Feb-2008 01:32

Can the offical boxes fix the shocking font problem that teletext captioning has?

Richard rich.ms

barlowdog

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# 109265 8-Feb-2008 12:54

Just an update on this issue....
The distributor (Ultrapower) has confirmed this problem exists and are taking it up with Hyundai.
I've heard from others though that their 880 seems to display subtitles ok so it may be on only some units.
IS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO CONFIRM THEY HAVE AN 880 WITHOUT THIS PROBLEM?
In order to check my STB I turned on the subtitles with the Audio button then also turned on the Teletext and selected page 801
The TV then showed both sets of subtitles and you could see clearly what was missing on the STB generated ones.
This suggested to me that the VBI insertion on the STB is working ok but there is a problem with the OSD emulation that injects the subtitles into the video stream for display and recording on the HDD.
If so could this be a software problem that can be fixed with a firmware update?
If some work and some don't though it looks more like a hardware problem with perhaps some components better speced than others?
Any comments?

Mac2008

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# 113681 29-Feb-2008 01:22

I have also heard from the importer that the Hyundai PVR has an ongoing fault with these subtitles. However I can tell you that the new Topfield PVR (TF6000PVR ES) does not seem to have any trouble with it. You can record a TV show and then play it back with the subtitles no problem.

The problem with the old TF5000CI has also been fixed I think, see the Topfield website www.topfield-newzealand.co.nz/downloads.htm

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# 114125 2-Mar-2008 15:18

I remember this thread from a month ago and hit the "teletext" button on my dreambox by accident and was presented with the teletext. It happily records all the teletext onto the HD, plus shows the teletext either live, or from recorded shows when you hit "text" on the remote. All seems to work well (once I figured out how to change the Teletext setup menu language from german to english :).

barlowdog

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# 119671 30-Mar-2008 11:51

Just to windup this post...
The distributor was unable to get Hyundai on to resolving this problem within a reasonable time frame.
Rather than wait I returned the Hyundai and purchased a Topfield TF 6000 PVR ES.
Whilst this is quite a bit more expensive than the Hyundai at least it works!
The subtitles are complete both on screen and recorded to the HDD.
I would recommend this model to any deaf or hearing impaired people looking for a simple way to record programmes with subtitles.