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thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


#195618 27-Apr-2016 01:18
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Hi all,

 

Longtime lurker, have learned a lot from the forum decided ill make an account and do a review/spiel about the newest and most exciting thing since HD.

TL/DR version: Put off buying a tv till HDR is more popular but if you already own a 4k tv that's 2015ish model that can do 4k 60p and HDCP 2.2 compliant then you might as well get this awesome player.



Before i move on i want to do a little flowchart thingy:

SD < HD (Noticeably better) < 4K upscaling of HD (getting there) < 4K Native (Meh) <  4K 60p HRD (OMFG THIS IS IT!!!)

(Note 1080 will soon get the 60p HDR treatment and it looks nice and smooth but lots more noise and grain compared to 4k)
 
Secondly before going into the review ill cover some of the jargon for people who may not be familiar.

UHD PREMIUM/UHD ALLIANCE (The standards authority for new Blurays)

UHD: 4k resolution 3840 x 2160

60p: 60 frames per second (compared to 24 we are used to)

HDR: High dynamic range (The WOW factor) Colours and brightness pop out the screen (Only Sony has a HDR tv out in NZ but dont fret you can get 2/3 its benefits if you have a mid - late model 2015 model 4k tv with wide colour specs)

Dolby vision/HDR10/Peak Illuminator/Precision Blacks: All HDR buzzwords, basically hdr is not only insane at colours and brightness the dark spots are way darker and the contrast is amazing.

BT.2020: New encoding format on XXL discs.

HDCP 2.2: New protection (no drawbacks when using this player as it has a seperate audio out hdmi) but basically this player needs to be plugged into a new style audio receiver that can handle 4k 60p passthrough otherwise no picture.

HDMI 2.0a: New HDMI protocol that actually uses the 18Gbps availlable (note your $5 cable will still work)

Region: No regions for UHD Discs (YAY)

Well now that that is out of the way...

The player:

Well its curved... My tv isnt none of my other stuff is but hey... its cool i suppose.

It took me around $800 to get it here and running from Amazon and youpost/customs and a step down transformer from Jaycar

 



 

 



 

 

Note i used only the audio out because i wanted to do a simultaneous test with all inputs directly into tv between my old bluray player, my htpc and the new player, tested Martian, Life of Pi and Mad Max (1080 vs 1080 upscaled vs UBD K8500 {winner everytime by a mile}) 

Yamaha RX V379 recognized it right away

 




And then comes the first screen...

 




Then you realize oh need the remote but you need a coin to get it going, i had to go to the garage a hunt for a washer (although turns out didnt need it my tv remote did everything)

 





Really cool thing about it is it picks up a 5Ghz wifi signal and since I am lucky enough to get fibre and 100mbs the streaming options will be very cool (but im not going to discuss that as no stream is going to look as good as the discs not atleast until everyone has fibre speeds and even then its heavily compressed except UltraflixHDR) I will review the streaming apps etc if someone wants but i use my htpc for that stuff.

 


 



After it updates you get the main screen...

 

NOW COMES THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP, make sure you manually enter these settings, if your TV can handle YCbCr select it and also once you play something select tools on remote and select user in picture mode, keep everything at 0 and put colour up to 10. And make sure you have deep colour set to auto. This way your Non HDR tv can experience some of the benefits of more colours and contrast. Keep 24p on if your TV cant deal with 60p.



I also got the Sony Camp HRD and non HDR files to compare and also a Samsung HDR demo file (please note if you download these files you will have to transfer onto harddrive usb 3.0 and plug into the usb port on the UBD K8500 to view, YOU CANNOT view HDR BT.2020 files on your PC (yet) If comparing the sony camp videos the HDR version can look dull and lifeless on a PC but through the UBD K8500 it looks insanely vibrant and like someone took a veil from in front of your eyes when comparing the standard version to the HDR version.

My camera work sucks im trying to capture the colours but i cant get the right settings.

 

HDR also turns any TV into an "oled" tv, the blacks just disappear the contrast between bright and dark seems infinite, (Ive over done it in these photos trying to get the colours) cant even notice any backlight at all, but i suck at getting the right camera settings to show any of this, please go to the demo uhd website and click hdr tab to download these videos to compare for yourself once you buy the samsung lol (i mean you have read this far!)



These are the movies i got from amazon, i have deadpool and revenant on the way ill update this post once ive seen those. All these movies start with a message saying your tv isnt HDR compatible and the viewing will be dependant on the capabilities of your tv.

 

Fortunately my tv seems to get me the colours and the infinite light/blacks but not a high dynamic range more of a Mild dynamic range (better start saving for the Samsung KS8500 tv when it lands here) Ive seen life of pi on 1080 (upscaled) bluray like 3 times and watching it on 4k was even more magical the colours (esp the trippy scenes) just jumped out of the screen, things like sunlight didnt even seem 2d some parts were like it was shining right in your eyes, the tiger is just gorgeous to look at (Cant wait for 4k HDR release of force awakens and jungle book!)  

Mad Max is the most demanding, it really shows when your tv cant handle the decoding as the colours on faces sometimes get really noisy, i managed to tame it by changing some colour ranges on my TV (lots of experimentation but pay off is worth it) the action is epic as ever but i think I need to wait and get an HDR tv before i see how eye popping mad max really is.

The slickest of the bunch is Martian its just shot after shot of jaw dropping backdrops and you can see every crack in every rock no matter near or far, the colours again are so full it like fills the room, you dont miss a bead of sweat or a piece of dirt its all clear and the hdr must be working cuz the realism and the planets colours just were so much crisper (esp 1080 vs 4k in scenes of stars etc, the black in between the stars was like pitch black it was like looking at the sky irl, no light hue on the screen, 1080 seemed like SD on most of the martian in comparison actually).

 



Conclusion: Im happy as larry but i still wont be satisfied till I get a proper HDR  or Doblyvision TV but im probably never going to be happy so ill take this as a win. This is definitely the best quality of video anyone has ever seen in a home (HDR projectors arent a thing yet and i cant afford a real hdr tv yet) it easily rivals the cinema in sheer excitiment value, except you can rewind and re watch scenes as much as you like.

Any question please ask and ill try find an answer for you...

 

HAPPY MOVIEING EVERYBODY!!!

 




Pls be nice this is my first post :P


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rokki
374 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1542511 27-Apr-2016 03:23
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Thanks for the in depth post I am sure it will benefit a lot of people.




My gear 55" Samsung 4K SUHD LCD HDR , Denon AVR-4200W Reciever in 7.1.2 Surround , Denon 2 Channel Amp to power ceiling speakers , Combination of Polk Audio Fronts And Tannoy Surrounds plus 2 Cambridge Audio Ceiling Speakers Pioneer Downfiring Subwoofer , Oppo UDP-203 UHD Player , Roku Ultra , Apple TV 3

 
 
 

GoodSync. Easily back up and sync your files with GoodSync. Simple and secure file backup and synchronisation software will ensure that your files are never lost (affiliate link).
thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542558 27-Apr-2016 08:38
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Thank you, took me a while to wrap my head around, hope it lets people decide for themselves, man I shouldve done a typo search before posting!

macuser
2120 posts

Uber Geek


  #1542678 27-Apr-2016 11:52
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Nice work

 

A quick fix though, BT.2020 is actually the colour gamut, not the codec.  Rec2020 allows for a larger spectrum of the colour range to be displayed.  

 

Here is a comparison of Rec2020 with Rec709 (Rec709 is the colour gamut that Blu-rays shipped in) - you'll notice that Rec2020 has far better performance in the 'green' spectrum.

 

There are currently no TV sets I'm aware of that are 100% capable of the Rec2020 standard (it's really a huge amount of colour spectrum) - The closest you will get is professional monitors which can display 99-100% of Adobe RGB which is still quite short of Rec2020.

 

Most modern TV's are probably only capable of displaying colour gamut within something between sRGB and Adobe RGB when using 'UHD Colour' equivalent.  

 

If you playback standard blu-ray conent back with Rec2020 on your TV enabled, you'll notice that the colours are over-saturated - normal blu-rays are best played with sRGB/Rec709 colour profile.

 

Rec2020 is 57.3% of the human visible spectrum which is quite amazing that we're so far away from truly natural colours. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542717 27-Apr-2016 12:26
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Oh great im not sure I can edit my original post to update but thanks for that info, I was under the impression bt.2020 was to do with encoding not just colour but now I know.

also the samsung ubd k8500 oversaturates if you dont have deep colour setting on, it just looks abnormal and also every tv has its own setting to activate it (on my panasonic its called vivid colour and colour range) I just checked the sony camp files from demo uhd site standard is 709 the other .2020 and the difference is huge when played through the ubd k8500. Looks vibrant and natural.

Very confusing but very exciting, my wife wouldnt let me get a $5k tv but would this http://www.sony.co.nz/product/kd-55x9300d be the closest to rec.2020/adobe rbg specs tv available to nz right now?

macuser
2120 posts

Uber Geek


  #1542722 27-Apr-2016 12:35
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thesudio: Oh great im not sure I can edit my original post to update but thanks for that info, I was under the impression bt.2020 was to do with encoding not just colour but now I know.

also the samsung ubd k8500 oversaturates if you dont have deep colour setting on, it just looks abnormal and also every tv has its own setting to activate it (on my panasonic its called vivid colour and colour range) I just checked the sony camp files from demo uhd site standard is 709 the other .2020 and the difference is huge when played through the ubd k8500. Looks vibrant and natural.

Very confusing but very exciting, my wife wouldnt let me get a $5k tv but would this http://www.sony.co.nz/product/kd-55x9300d be the closest to rec.2020/adobe rbg specs tv available to nz right now?

 

RTings.com has really great reviews.  They've reviewed this TV.

 

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x930d

 

I have a 55X8500C which is last years Sony.  It is HDR compatible (but isn't as bright as the 2016 TV's, but has high contrast and better black levels).  I got it for $1999 just the other day, I'm really happy with it and those HDR sample videos look and play great.

 

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850c

 

I also have a 1080P projector which I'm interested to know how well the player down scales 4K into 1080P, I'm sure it would be a lot better than a native 1080P source.

 

 

 

 


thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542732 27-Apr-2016 12:52
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Oh wow thanks that looks like what I need! Oh yes that would be slick if it does give you a better experience, hdr seems like it was made for projectors to shine!

ilovemusic
1425 posts

Uber Geek


  #1542744 27-Apr-2016 13:19
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good write up !

 

good setup, aside from  speaker positioning.

 

what's the sound like from the new format ?

 

 




ARIKIP
210 posts

Master Geek


  #1542753 27-Apr-2016 13:32
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Thanks for the writeup. Nice to see a local opinion. Was tempted to order one from the US. Though....might wait to see how much they are when released here. Hopefully they release the player in may as the UHD Blu-rays are slated for may releases here. As a non 4K TV owner im curious to see what a UHD Blu-ray will look like on a decent 1080P Plasma. Would love to compare a downscaled 4k UHD Blu-ray vs a 1080P one. I own a Panasonic TH-P65ST60 and a TH-P60ST50 and am hoping even a downscaled UHD disc will have an edge. Im thinking even more impressive blacks/contrast. Ill be going the OLED path for my future upgrade which is a wee while away according to the missus lol. Roll on may. 





Sony 77" A80J OLED, Integra 60.7, Panasonic UB820, Toshiba HD-XE1, Apple TV 4K, JBL L100T,JBL 18Ti, JBL L20T, Velodyne HGS15


thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542754 27-Apr-2016 13:33
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ilovemusic:

good write up !


good setup, aside from  speaker positioning.


what's the sound like from the new format ?


 



Haha yeah im a sound engineer too so it does erk me lol but my rooms too cosy and I had to compromise somewhere, I have it set up as a side fill rather than rear fill, sound wise I notice a difference between my old bluray and new one, I should test in my studio but I only have a stereo set up for recording/mixing etc but much nicer amp and speakers, I dont see things can get better than dolby true hd or dtx though!

thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542780 27-Apr-2016 13:50
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ARIKIP:

Thanks for the writeup. Nice to see a local opinion. Was tempted to order one from the US. Though....might wait to see how much they are when released here. Hopefully they release the player in may as the UHD Blu-rays are slated for may releases here. As a non 4K TV owner im curious to see what a UHD Blu-ray will look like on a decent 1080P Plasma. Would love to compare a downscaled 4k UHD Blu-ray vs a 1080P one. I own a Panasonic TH-P65ST60 and a TH-P60ST50 and am hoping even a downscaled UHD disc will have an edge. Im thinking even more impressive blacks/contrast. Ill be going the OLED path for my future upgrade which is a wee while away according to the missus lol. Roll on may. 



I would argue this is the smartest option to take considering when your mrs lets you eventually get a 4k hdr tv itll literally smack you in the face, in your situation I would leave 24p on in the players settings as you will experience too much stutter if you downscale 4k 60p into 1080 24p natively just using the tv

BUUUBUUUT chances are it wont work due to hdcp 2.2 so make sure you can return it!

jaidevp
331 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Spark NZ

  #1542784 27-Apr-2016 13:55
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Thanks for the review, the Sammy player doesn't work well with the Sony 4K projectors, currently with HDR and BT2020 engaged it overblows Red saturation.  The thinking is the player is not even sending HDR, however it's very difficult to tell due to their info display lacking any real information on what the player is actually sending i.e. 4K@24p HDR 4:4:4 BT2020 etc..

 

Apparently the Panasonic DMP-UB900 just released in Europe, doesn't suffer the same issues, and works fine with HDR on the Sony 4K projectors, it also has an excellent info display.  But some users reported audio dropout with ATMOS tracks.  Panasonic issued a Firmware update just 2 days ago to address it, and it's looking good so far.

 

Still early adopter stage and even the hardware manufacturers haven't worked out all the details..

 

 

 

Additional note about cables:  It has been established that even the premium brands fail at full 4K res, even though they are certified High speed cables.  This brought out another round of confusion industry wide, so the HDMI licensing org had to create a certification program for Ultra HD cables

 

 

 

 

 

 


thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542800 27-Apr-2016 14:02
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jaidevp:

Thanks for the review, the Sammy player doesn't work well with the Sony 4K projectors, currently with HDR and BT2020 engaged it overblows Red saturation.  The thinking is the player is not even sending HDR, however it's very difficult to tell due to their info display lacking any real information on what the player is actually sending i.e. 4K@24p HDR 4:4:4 BT2020 etc..


Apparently the Panasonic DMP-UB900 just released in Europe, doesn't suffer the same issues, and works fine with HDR on the Sony 4K projectors, it also has an excellent info display.  But some users reported audio dropout with ATMOS tracks.  Panasonic issued a Firmware update just 2 days ago to address it, and it's looking good so far.


Still early adopter stage and even the hardware manufacturers haven't worked out all the details..


 


 


 


 



Yes the lack of info other than resolution and fps is annoying and I didnt realise the panasonic was out I got ants in pants because I thought they were going to be releasing same time as oppo in september... doh

thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1542919 27-Apr-2016 16:52
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Just a note the yamaha rx v379 does not passthrough video at 4k which is strange because my htpc dooes 4k fine through it..

Dunnersfella
4066 posts

Uber Geek


  #1542986 27-Apr-2016 19:33
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Correct - the RX-V679 is the first amp in the Yamaha RX-V lineup to handle full 4K / HDR video (you need the latest firmware and to go into the advanced menu and turn the 'Video mode' to 1... not 2 (which it ships set to)).

 

 

 

Looks like there's some items in your chain that may need upgrading over time... if you don't use the second HDMI output of the player that is.


thesudio

68 posts

Master Geek


  #1543256 28-Apr-2016 10:21
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Oh didnt know that about modes not sure how to update will see if I can switch and post results

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