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328 posts

Ultimate Geek
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# 207953 20-Jan-2017 20:05
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Hi this could be interesting for some. I used to be a serviceman, and worked in TV industry so I guess Im qualified to comment about TVs.

 

We have a perfectly good Sony 46EX500 (46" 1080p) which has served our home for about 5 years however like all technophobes, I would like to get something a tad more current and higher spec, and The Warehouse ad for a 55" Veon V55UHDS  seemed too good to be true. My budget is around $1400 and this special offer is $699 UNBELIEVABLE!

 

I got a bunch of test patterns and UHD video clips on a USB, including one 3 minute scene from Harry Potter movie in a forest. This scene was very low resolution, but ideal for proving good low-light luminance in a test set.

 

Yes, i know, most folks go to a store, look at a set and say thats the one. But I'm a critical shopper and I guess the type of customer sales people hope to avoid.

 

The Warehouse support provided a user manual for me to check the specs out for model V55UHDS and I dont need Android o/s or smart TV, I simply want a good picture as I already have a Vigica Multimedia DVB-S player which does essentially the same job as a smart TV.

 


On paper, the Veon looked perfect. Unfortunately, in reality the converse applied. If you go to The Warehouse and TV department, you may notice a lack of dynamic range and pixelation on their TVs (Veon & JVC).  The assistant was very helpful (top marks to The Warehouse for customer service and warranty), unfortunately, I had to say to her that either the TV are not up to the job, or my USB stick files are faulty. The Veon refused to play most of the files even though they were in the playable spec list, and the HD ones it would play were just as bad (pixelation and poor chroma accuracy) as the blu-ray video they were playing when I arrived. Given that there is a 3 year warranty for the Veon and the price was so good I was hoping my USB was the culprit. Following tests with other makes of TV had no problems opening files on same USB which was formatted FAT32 as per Veon specs.

 

Next stop, Harvey Norman, where I struck a very competent salesman again. After hearing my budget of $1400 he demonstrated a $2000 Series 7000 Samsung, a really nice set with some edge lighting problems but amazing contrast and accurate low-light levels.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=34&topicid=207810
Its other problem was edge viewing eg when you go slightly to the side of the picture it deteriorates and in our situation some folks are seated in that area. LG doesnt suffer from this issue.
However, and heres the most important bit of my diatribe, the Harry Potter test failed miserably with LG. I have a short HP test very low resolution, which is a giveaway for sets that dont have good luminance tracking on low levels. Despite any user settings the LG would not show the 'forest floor and Harry' about 20 seconds into the video. Samsung and Sony sail through this test. Why its so important is that many movies have these dark scenes, and even if not so dark, have you struggled to see whats happening in a night scene? this should not be the case. If you have a TV (unfortunately for LG) that has poor low luminance response, the scenes are basically black with no information. Nobody seems to know about this problem unless they have a good TV and buy a second one which exhibits this fault. Yes, I call it a fault as a TV job is to reproduce accurately video information, and if its processor removes information, then its not fit for purpose.
So at this stage we have an Alistair who likes the LG for everything else, including a better price than Samsung and Sony, to a Samsung which is grossly overpriced IMHO (6000 series 2016/7 new years promo $1200 Noel Leeming manufacturers promotion), to a Sony which I may end up with as price is reasonable, edge lighting has no problem and edge viewing similar to LG with great low level luminance, though price is still higher than my budget.

 

The problems with LG luminance have been notified to them, and if they reply I will add here.

 

Unfortunately, Hisense which are arguably better than Samsung, much cheaper than Samsung, are not available in NZ; they have great reviews overseas and are in JBHIFI AU but not here as the sets dont have Kiwi TV standards.
Wondering why I never mentioned Panasonics: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=34&topicid=93084

 

God bless,

 

Alistair.

 

 

 

PS if you want you can try low resolution test video from
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1541849/HarryP.avi.zip


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  # 1706623 20-Jan-2017 20:09
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Shame you don't want to try Panasonic again. IMHO their TV's are probably the best option out for their for an LED at present so it would have been interesting to see how your test measured up.

 

The unfortunate reality since Panasonic scrapped their Plasma range is that the LG OLED is the only TV on the market worth that's actually any good.

 

 

 

 


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  # 1706626 20-Jan-2017 20:13
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Speaking of terrible TV's Harvey Norman sell Konic TV's incredibly cheaply. One look at them in store next to any other TV and you wonder why they even bother.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1706648 20-Jan-2017 21:20
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sbiddle + TV thread = panasonic + plasma wink

 

sbiddle + TV thread - plasma = LG OLED laughing

 

Is @PeterReader's middle initial "S" ?

 

 

 

/#troll


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  # 1706723 20-Jan-2017 22:49
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Going from a Sony to a stores house brand will be a bit of a step down. The Sony EX LCD/LED backlit models were nice LCDs. None of the nasty screen edge bleed you get on some of these newer TVs. Sony are bringing out new models this year so older models may come down in price. I personally stick to Sony and Panasonic for TVs




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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1706803 21-Jan-2017 08:35
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I found it difficult to contact LG to let them know of this luminence issue; their contact system is very poor.

 

Eventually I got an email response but he gave me an unsatisfactory reply with no effort made to look into the issue. Their email reply was not possible to reply to (no reply link or working links in email).

 

Scratch LG.

 

I'll try Panasonic as they were aware of the issue a few years ago and Ive found them a proactive firm with excellent support.

 

So its down to the Sony and Panasonic. Will advise when sorted thanks vm.




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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1706804 21-Jan-2017 08:39
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sbiddle:

 

Speaking of terrible TV's Harvey Norman sell Konic TV's incredibly cheaply. One look at them in store next to any other TV and you wonder why they even bother.

 

 

 

Its a good sales tactic because you see the Konic with such a poor picture then the friendly salesman leads you to a Samsung - sold!

 

In fact, if my memory serves the Konic was the first display row of TV in HN/Tauranga.


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  # 1706806 21-Jan-2017 08:43
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The veon and most of the cheapie 4k screens will only play 1080 content off the USB stick in any format at all, its like the player is a seperate device to the TV, dont seem to do any of the neat things that the real brands do with handling odd framerates well and strange resolutions. I am still yet to see if the veon had HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 because I just also took a USB stick to try. They are too large to really buy on the offchance they are not total junk as far as being usable as a 4k screen off a PC/android box rather than its internal media player.

 

 





Richard rich.ms



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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1707103 21-Jan-2017 19:34
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richms:

 

The veon and most of the cheapie 4k screens will only play 1080 content off the USB stick in any format at all, its like the player is a seperate device to the TV, dont seem to do any of the neat things that the real brands do with handling odd framerates well and strange resolutions. I am still yet to see if the veon had HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 because I just also took a USB stick to try. They are too large to really buy on the offchance they are not total junk as far as being usable as a 4k screen off a PC/android box rather than its internal media player. 

 

 

In store they were playing a blu-ray disk and it had a very flat washed out look with some pixelation. Possibly using HDMI 2 port would help, I dont know but if you buy one, please lets know. You could always get assurance before buying that it can be returned if unhappy.

 

Veon HDMI specs:

 

HDMI1 (1.4) Upscaling to 4K@30hz (source need 1080P), Support 4K@30hz
HDMI2 (1.4) Upscaling to 4K@30hz (source need 1080P), Support 4K@30hz
HDMI3 (1.4) Upscaling to 4K@30hz (source need 1080P), Support 4K@30hz
HDMI4 (2.0) Support 4K 60fps (not support upscaling)

 

Specifications
Model
V55UHDS
General data
Display type LED / LCD
Screen size 139cm (55”)
Aspect ratio 16:9
Panel resolution (pixel) 3840 (horizontal) x 2160 (vertical)
HD compatible 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p,
2160i, 2160p
Antenna impedance 75 ohm
Power supply AC 100-240V, 50/60Hz
Power consumption <145W
Inputs
HDMI 4
Mini Y/Pb/Pr 1
Mini AV 2
RF (Antenna) 1
USB 1
Outputs
Headphone 1
Optical 1
Coaxial 1
TV
Operating temperature -5°C – 45°C
Operating humidity 20% – 80%
TV Dimensions (W x H x D)mm
TV Weight
1244 x 773 x 310mm With TV Stand
1244 x 719 x 83mm Without TV Stand
Approx. 15.2 kg With TV Stand
Approx. 14.8 kg Without TV Stand


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  # 1707234 21-Jan-2017 21:31
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Can you get 24Hz 2160p performance on the Veon?

 

I think the colour accuracy and scaling will be even worse.

 

 

 

The reality is, many people will overlook a host of issues with cheaper TV's in order to save some money. Not everyone is in a position to buy a high spec TV / has the inclination. The thing is, TV's can be in our life from 5 to 10 years and if it bugs you from day 1, it'll be REALLY annoying further down the track.


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  # 1707240 21-Jan-2017 21:41
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Dunnersfella:

 

Can you get 24Hz 2160p performance on the Veon?

 

I think the colour accuracy and scaling will be even worse.

 

 

 

The reality is, many people will overlook a host of issues with cheaper TV's in order to save some money. Not everyone is in a position to buy a high spec TV / has the inclination. The thing is, TV's can be in our life from 5 to 10 years and if it bugs you from day 1, it'll be REALLY annoying further down the track.

 

 

Yeah, the one thing I cant stand on a TV is a flickering backlight with PWM dimming, and when it dims down to "save power" if its a dark scene.

 

Can you tell if a TV has that easily from the high brightness demo crap in a store? Hell no. And TVs being the size they are and being almost impossible to get out of the packaging without stuffing the packaging up makes returning them a really annoying thing to do. My 24" panasonic which turned out to not even be 1080 after the salesdroid lied to me never went back because I couldnt get the stupid stand back off it. 

 

It also puts a NO HDMI AUDIO message on the screen when on a PC. Have to use the remote to get that to go away. Moronic design on so many fronts but I expect that from both panasonic and philips now.





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  # 1707290 22-Jan-2017 09:00
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richms:

 

 

 

It also puts a NO HDMI AUDIO message on the screen when on a PC. Have to use the remote to get that to go away. Moronic design on so many fronts but I expect that from both panasonic and philips now.

 

 

 

 

Hi which model Panasonic is this, and did you try my Harry Potter clip to see how well it faired?


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Master Geek
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  # 1708982 24-Jan-2017 21:18
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@ageorge

Be aware of a couple of basic issues when doing store tests.

Lighting, viewing angles and distances are typically completely different in stores relative to your home.

Lighting in stores will destroy any black point and sub 20% luminance perception.
Viewing closely, less than home seating 2~3 metres range you can typically see oddities in many displays.
Viewing angles, high low and side is an issue for nearly all panels especially for any of the light valve technologies such as LCDs no matter the back light.

You also should get a test disk (free at AVSforums) which will allow you to check pluge, black point at 16~17 is viewable. But store lighting might make seeing this difficult.

The EOTF or Gamma in old terms might need to be set for the lighting, this might highlight detail in sub 20% luminance, depends on the display quality.

If the white balance is off then detail will be lost.

A lot of so called 4k panels, despite HDMI2.0 are only 8bit and pretty much conform to Rec709 with 2160p resolution addition.

Some, mainly the high quality and priced displays might do 10bit....might. HDR10/Dolby vision capable might be a clue 10bit processing is part of the design.

Devil in the detail.




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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1758045 7-Apr-2017 11:39
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Review of the Sony BRAVIA KD-55X7000D.

Pros:
1..Greyscale is among the best I have seen on any TV. My test file of Harry Potter in the dark forest shows the forest floor and various details which some competitors fail to show apart from a dark scene. To achieve perfect greyscale on this Sony (using a HOME source), I adjusted Action/Picture/Advanced/Black Level and increased to 65%. Being a Smart TV each input has its own settings so if, for example you have a TV Box HDMI source which outputs a low brightness, you can compensate the same way but increase to eg 75%. Many movies have significant content in dark scenes. A set with poor greyscale shows dark and no low-light detail.
2..Android O/S IMHO is the best for allowing the user to choose what applications they want to use. There are negatives to Sony implementation though.
3..Some users complain of slow boot time, but new firmware obviates this problem and boot takes about 30 seconds.
4..Colour has always been a Sony strong-point and this set continues this great colour accuracy tradition.
5..My previous Sony, a KDL-46EX500 had a respectable picture, albeit with lack of luminescence/brightness and average black levels. Even though this KD-55X7000D is Sony low-end model of UHD, black levels and brightness are excellent.
6..Netflix is a featured app, and works perfectly.
7..Product Support: I have been contacting Sony support and unlike some other reviewers comments have found their support good.
8..Specified refresh rate is 50hz, but Tech support advises its 100hz (better) as well as the 200hz Motionflow gives great sports and action response.

Cons:
1..A few USB files will not play. Initially I found many wouldn't play, but this was caused by a slow bitrate MicroSD card source. Otherwise some AVI files (MPEG4/DX50) and .TS files wouldn't play with the default video player. To play all files you need to go to Play Store and download the VLC player, and set that as the default player. This is disappointing that Sony has not sorted their default player. Especially that .TS format is a standard codec that should be compatible with any modern player.
2..If you install an app from Play Store, sometimes it wont appear in the main menu. To open you have to go to Settings/Apps and open from there which is frustrating. I also found there were plenty of apps which simply would not install, however, the important ones most users would want do work fine. Because of this limitation, I have to use an external TV Box to stream video from these apps to Sony TV.
3..There are some things on the Home Screen which are plain annoying and advert based. *Some you can disable by going to Settings/Apps. 'Game Shop' can be disabled. Sony should pull their socks up here. After all a user buys a set for their enjoyment, not for the supplier to push ads in their face. Some Apps are not advert based, but are just annoying as you may not want them showing.
New Zealanders: If you want to use TVNZ on Demand, that will not install; unfortunately TVNZ have never made a decent implementation of this app which fails on most of my other equipment also.
4..If you connect an external USB Hard Drive with videos etc the Android system wont let you write to the device unless its initialized. This means that a perfectly good USB drive has to be formatted (killing all contents). This would seem to be an Android OS problem, but the same HD can be connected to a Android TV Box with no issues.
5..I have a wireless Air Mouse/Keyboard which works on everything else but with the Sony TV its defective eg Exit, Enter and some other keys do not function. This is probably my greatest issue with this set.
6..HDR seems an afterthought in this model insofar as you enable it in HDMI settings.
7..No integrated DVB-S/satellite tuner.

Summary:
Im a retired TV and computer design tech with over 20 years experience servicing TV.
Prior to buying, I tried LG and Samsung models but the Sony stood out as the best overall IMHO.
With the Sony BRAVIA KD-55X7000D you are getting an exceptionally good product with plenty of hardware inputs (except RGB) and almost flawless operation. Despite its low end price, it gives extreme accuracy with the technicians 'Philips PM5644 test pattern'.
In actual use sound is good, with excellent picture quality, and that's the bottom line.

*Tweaks:
If you want to tidy up the cluttered Home screen, you can do the following at your own risk:
Get Rid of the "Featured Apps" Section  Go to Settings -> Apps, Look for an app called "Sony Shelf", Force Close it, Set Notifications to "Off", Clear Data.
Get Rid of the "Sony Select" App and its Recommendations, Go to Settings -> Apps, Look for an app called "Sony Select", Force Close it,    Set Notifications to "Off", Clear Data.
Alter "Recommendations" bar: Settings/System/Home Screen/Recommendations Click on a recommendation to remove dot or to include click to add dot.


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  # 1758055 7-Apr-2017 11:58
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I think that Sony was the TV that was selling for a very good price the other day at HN and Noel Leeming for around $1150? I was contemplating on whether I should've got it to replace our one and only 7 year 40" Sony TV which costed $1349 back then!





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Master Geek
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  # 1758066 7-Apr-2017 12:11
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A Little off topic but is this TV from http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850d the same as http://www.jbhifi.co.nz/tv-lcd-led-plasma/sony/65-inch-ultra-hd-4k-smart-led-lcd-tv-sku-313198/

 

It is so hard to find corresponding models from review sites

 

Thanks


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