Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › HDMI cables for 4K HDR longer than 2m

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#243177 29-Nov-2018 14:31

I've just recently upgraded to a 4K HDR TV, and I have my media/games devices further than 2m away.

I have tried 5 different 4m Dynamix cables (all say they are capable of the full 18Gbps required) with my Xbox One X and have had the following results once I enable HDR on the TV:

3x C-HDMI20-4: One doesn't work at all, one cuts in and out, and one appears to work (although I only tested it for a couple of minutes, and based on the other two I'm not that comfortable relying on it).

2x C-HDMI2FL-4: Neither work at all.

Just to be sure I tested on two different 4K HDR TVs, and 2 different Xboxes (an X and an S) and got the same results.

I've swapped for some 3m cables which should be just long enough and will try those tonight.

I've read about people having issues with HDR and HDMI cables, but this seems ridiculous. Has anyone else had similar issues?

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169 posts

Master Geek

#2136635 29-Nov-2018 14:48

Hi Paul,

Sounds very similar to the problems I had with my PS4 Pro. I built my place about 4 years ago and the media cupboard is in the hall about 8m from the TV (to save space in the lounge) My old PS4 had no problems outputting to my TV and the PS4 Pro initially had no problems with my old 1080p tv. Long story short I upgraded my TV to a 4K HDR model and what do you know, the video signal started cutting in and out. Tried lots of things, including running a brand new cables up the hallway, to no avail. I finally had one last roll of the dice on an HDMI signal booster and what do you know, I have had no problems since! This is the model I got from Amazon. Not available now, but there are plenty of alternatives out there and it was quite cheap.

HDMI 2.0 Repeater, Tendak 4K@60HZ HDMI Booster Extender Female to Female Signal Amplifier Support 4K@60HZ HDR 4:4:4 with Power Supply for Oculus Rift and More

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136645 29-Nov-2018 15:20

hadenkose:

Hi Paul,

Sounds very similar to the problems I had with my PS4 Pro. I built my place about 4 years ago and the media cupboard is in the hall about 8m from the TV (to save space in the lounge) My old PS4 had no problems outputting to my TV and the PS4 Pro initially had no problems with my old 1080p tv. Long story short I upgraded my TV to a 4K HDR model and what do you know, the video signal started cutting in and out. Tried lots of things, including running a brand new cables up the hallway, to no avail. I finally had one last roll of the dice on an HDMI signal booster and what do you know, I have had no problems since! This is the model I got from Amazon. Not available now, but there are plenty of alternatives out there and it was quite cheap.

HDMI 2.0 Repeater, Tendak 4K@60HZ HDMI Booster Extender Female to Female Signal Amplifier Support 4K@60HZ HDR 4:4:4 with Power Supply for Oculus Rift and More

I'm not going anywhere near 8m so I'm hoping the 3m cables I got today will do the trick.

But what gets me is that the manufacturers say they will work, and some even have a "4K60 UltraHD" logo on the packaging. In fact according to the listed specs you should have been able to use this 10m cable without a repeater, but if the 4m doesn't work I don't see how the 10m will!

I've had no issues with exchanging the cables, so that's not a problem. It's just very frustrating when the specs say they will work, and then in practice they don't.

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136650 29-Nov-2018 15:28

@hadenkose out of interest, what length cables do you have on either side of the repeater?

SpartanVXL

1307 posts

Uber Geek

#2136652 29-Nov-2018 15:41

If I remember correctly a bunch of AV guys did a test and found 10ft(3m) of cable generally worked okay. Anything past that and you would start to notice if the cable was dropping signal and you'd need to find quality cable or start using repeaters.

hadenkose

169 posts

Master Geek

#2136686 29-Nov-2018 15:49

@Paul1977 I didn't want to have run a new cable in the hallway and plug and unplug it every time I want to use my PS4. All my original cables are run in the walls and ceiling, so I can't change them. I have about a 10m Length to the repeater and then 1m to the TV. I've got the repeater powered off the usb port in the TV. Like I said above, it works great and I haven't lost video signal on any games since.

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136689 29-Nov-2018 16:00

hadenkose:

@Paul1977 I didn't want to have run a new cable in the hallway and plug and unplug it every time I want to use my PS4. All my original cables are run in the walls and ceiling, so I can't change them. I have about a 10m Length to the repeater and then 1m to the TV. I've got the repeater powered off the usb port in the TV. Like I said above, it works great and I haven't lost video signal on any games since.

@hadenkose I'm curious now...

So if you remove the repeater and plug the 10m cable directly into the PS4 it doesn't work properly, but inserting the repeater followed by another 1m cable and it does work?

I would have thought if the 10m cable didn't work on it's own, then you would need two 5m cables with the repeater in the middle. The solution obviously works, but I don't understand why.

hadenkose

169 posts

Master Geek

#2136693 29-Nov-2018 16:11

@Paul1977 The specs of the repeater say that it will do 4K60hz up to 25m...(15m+10m) That was one of the reasons I got it. I was very skeptical, but the damn thing has been a savior for me.

Sorry, forgot to answer your first question. If I remove the repeater, the 10m cable will give me signal. But after a few minutes the screen will flicker... Then it might be ok for another few minutes or even longer, but it will eventually do it again...and again....

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Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#2136696 29-Nov-2018 16:22

So all that's happening here is that you're losing the 5 volt signal required to perform the HDCP's handshake. It's why some fibre based HDMI cables have a micro-USB port at the display end.

Basically, HDMI cable quality is starting to matter again...

However many manufacturers who printed '4K compatible' on their cables may not have even tested them before doing so... remember that most products didn't even have the ability to output / receiver over 13gbps until early this year. Many still don't.

However big projectors / high end TV's can, and source devices like the 4K Apple TV are now showing up these limitations.

Basically, a lot of companies will begin to see returns from frustrated customers...

Personally, I'd be looking at a fibre / copper hybrid cable when running cabling.

However, at the same time I'd try and get conduit in, plus run Cat and (if possible) fibre at the same time.

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136747 29-Nov-2018 17:31

Dunnersfella:
So all that's happening here is that you're losing the 5 volt signal required to perform the HDCP's handshake. It's why some fibre based HDMI cables have a micro-USB port at the display end.

Basically, HDMI cable quality is starting to matter again...

However many manufacturers who printed '4K compatible' on their cables may not have even tested them before doing so... remember that most products didn't even have the ability to output / receiver over 13gbps until early this year. Many still don't.

However big projectors / high end TV's can, and source devices like the 4K Apple TV are now showing up these limitations.

Basically, a lot of companies will begin to see returns from frustrated customers...

Personally, I'd be looking at a fibre / copper hybrid cable when running cabling.

However, at the same time I'd try and get conduit in, plus run Cat and (if possible) fibre at the same time.

Thanks for the explanation. Does that explain why the repeater works for @hadenkose, is it just injecting more voltage in for the handshake?

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136802 29-Nov-2018 18:47

Well, the 3m cables are working without any problems so far. And fortunately they are long enough for my setup.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#2136865 29-Nov-2018 21:26

Paul1977:

Thanks for the explanation. Does that explain why the repeater works for @hadenkose, is it just injecting more voltage in for the handshake?

I believe so, it eliminates a potential issue that can be adverse to HDMI's performance.

richms

28175 posts

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#2136893 29-Nov-2018 22:09

If it just says 4k it might be chromasubsampled 4:2:0 8 bit at 24hz crap that they will "work" with.

Even 4:4:4 8 bit at 60Hz is too much for a hell of a lot of cables and things.

Richard rich.ms

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2136903 29-Nov-2018 23:09

richms:

If it just says 4k it might be chromasubsampled 4:2:0 8 bit at 24hz crap that they will "work" with.

Even 4:4:4 8 bit at 60Hz is too much for a hell of a lot of cables and things.

These specific ones all said 18Gpbs 4K 60Hz 10/12bit colour.

Paul1977

5043 posts

Uber Geek

#2138358 3-Dec-2018 09:35

Update: The new 3m cable connected to the Xbox One X would have occasional flashes of static. Only a split second, but quite annoying. The new 3m cable on the PS4 Pro is not having any problems.

So I swapped the new 3m cable from the Xbox with the old 4m cable (which I tested last week as working with HDR) from my old PS3 (which obviously doesn't require 4K or HDR).

Now everything truly does seem to be working.

Even though one of the new 3m cables isn't quite up to task for HDR, I couldn't be bothered returning it and am happy to just use it on for my old PS3 where it works with no issues.

@Dunnersfella is right. As 4K HDR starts becoming the norm, there will be a lot of complaints and returns of cables not performing as advertised. Cable manufacturers need to up their game.

Masterpiece

247 posts

Master Geek

#2138847 3-Dec-2018 21:31

I've tested with my HDMI cable test kit a number of the cables that appear limited (as listed by the OP) and found all pass data tests up to 18Gbps.

Generally I've only found problems at the 10m+ cables and those only ever rated as "10.2Gbps"

However, I have have already commented here at Geekzone on other threads about those with gaming setups wishing to drive 50/60hz refresh rates. I suspect you may well be forced to run 8bit if you want 2160p60 and also 4:2:0
Trying to drive 4:4:4 or RGB you are forced to 8bit, at 10/12bit 4:2:2 or 4:2:0

In all reality if one thing fails to comply with the display input you will glitch and even blank out.
This is one of the problems with TV's being used as gaming displays.

I'd also check the panel HDMI ports, in some cases some are full HDMI 2.0a/b and some HDMI 1.4 and some designed for gaming. So check your specs.

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