Kef Q series owners - is the center speaker worth it?

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ShinyChrome

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#247999 6-Mar-2019 12:21

I recently picked up a set of Kef Q700 towers and I have been thinking about adding a center for HT. Pretty much my only matching option is a Q650c (barring an older model turning up second hand). Anyone here had experience with this sort of speaker combo setup?

I like the Kef sound signature, but I more curious to hear any owners feedback on how much of a difference adding the center makes, given that the cheapest I could find it was a shade over $600. Unfortunately no one locally has them on demo, so I can't really experience the difference myself.

jonathan18

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#2192135 6-Mar-2019 12:51

Part of the answer to your question isn't so much brand- (or model-) specific, but generally whether you have a particular preference for the guaranteed placement of dialogue.

Apparently, many people don't mind a 'phantom' centre, and either don't care or aren't affected by the shifting location of dialogue based on how far the viewer is away from the dead centre. Also, the location of your fronts will also affect this; having them close to the mid-point, eg either side of a TV, will minimise this misalignment (but, in doing so, wreaking havoc with the wider soundstage, particularly for music.)

Personally, I can't stand it; for me, it's critical that dialogue lines up with the image, so I'd be willing to even sacrifice tonal consistency (by having a non-matching centre) over having no centre.

You may be able to find a centre speaker that, while a different brand or/model, still have similar enough tonal characteristics to meet your preferences, though of course it's ideal to have the same across at least the three fronts speakers.

ShinyChrome

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#2192217 6-Mar-2019 14:31

jonathan18:

Part of the answer to your question isn't so much brand- (or model-) specific, but generally whether you have a particular preference for the guaranteed placement of dialogue.

Apparently, many people don't mind a 'phantom' centre, and either don't care or aren't affected by the shifting location of dialogue based on how far the viewer is away from the dead centre. Also, the location of your fronts will also affect this; having them close to the mid-point, eg either side of a TV, will minimise this misalignment (but, in doing so, wreaking havoc with the wider soundstage, particularly for music.)

Personally, I can't stand it; for me, it's critical that dialogue lines up with the image, so I'd be willing to even sacrifice tonal consistency (by having a non-matching centre) over having no centre.

You may be able to find a centre speaker that, while a different brand or/model, still have similar enough tonal characteristics to meet your preferences, though of course it's ideal to have the same across at least the three fronts speakers.

Thanks for the input, all fair points. The positioning I have now provides a strong phantom center, but as you say, only when sitting dead center in the middle of the couch. Which is hard to do when sharing with a wife and cat. I find the dialogue to be pretty clear, but the volume can be a bit inconsistent, the old 'turn it up for the dialogue, turn it down for sound effects' problem.

Really, I have never had a center speaker, so it would probably improve my HT experience regardless for the reasons you describe, but without A/Bing it and given that Q650c is on the somewhat high side of center pricing, I'm interested to hear any feedback (huck huck) .

On a side note, I came across a thread where a guy was talking about his Kef R500s paired with a Klipsch RP center for the higher sensitivity and the horn tweeter, which I guess makes sense. If the price was right, I'd probably give it a go.

jonathan18

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#2192241 6-Mar-2019 14:54

Is there an option of seeing if you can borrow a centre speaker of any kind (but of good enough quality) just to see what your sense of whether it makes a big enough difference to pursue it further?

Perhaps even a local HiFi shop may be willing to lend you one for a day? Or a member here maybe (where do you live?).

My first centre nearly 20 years ago didn't match the fronts I had then, nor when I replaced those Image 302s with Paradigms. Once I could afford the $700 for a matching centre I jumped at the upgrade, but in no way do I regret having had that Polk centre for those three or so years.

YMMV!

ShinyChrome

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#2193023 7-Mar-2019 14:24

jonathan18: Is there an option of seeing if you can borrow a centre speaker of any kind (but of good enough quality) just to see what your sense of whether it makes a big enough difference to pursue it further?

Perhaps even a local HiFi shop may be willing to lend you one for a day? Or a member here maybe (where do you live?).

My first centre nearly 20 years ago didn't match the fronts I had then, nor when I replaced those Image 302s with Paradigms. Once I could afford the $700 for a matching centre I jumped at the upgrade, but in no way do I regret having had that Polk centre for those three or so years.

YMMV!

Not a half bad idea that. I am in Palmerston North, unfortunately no one I know around here is the slightest bit interested in HT, let alone owns a center.

Probably not the local Hi-Fi shop as while they have been good to chat with, I will probably not be buying through them as their pricing just isn't even close to being competitive. If only we had the sort of try-it-for-X-days policy some of the Hi-Fi places in the states do, but I guess that is just the limitations of our size of market.

I suppose at the very least I could try hooking up one of my Infinity bookshelf speakers I just replaced to give a rough approximation.

jonathan18

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#2193075 7-Mar-2019 14:50

Ah, I had a vague memory from another thread that you may be in PN; as am I, so we could look at you borrowing my centre for a few hours (but not perhaps over-night, as my wife may not like being without it!). PM me if interested.

agent86

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#2193163 7-Mar-2019 16:55

I have the Q600C, I think it does make the dialogue clearer in my situation.
It sits between a pair of Q900s which can sometimes overpower the 600C. I think the 600c is probably better paired with the Q700s.

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ShinyChrome

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#2195660 11-Mar-2019 10:24

jonathan18:

Ah, I had a vague memory from another thread that you may be in PN; as am I, so we could look at you borrowing my centre for a few hours (but not perhaps over-night, as my wife may not like being without it!). PM me if interested.

Pm sent!

agent86:

I have the Q600C, I think it does make the dialogue clearer in my situation.
It sits between a pair of Q900s which can sometimes overpower the 600C. I think the 600c is probably better paired with the Q700s.

Thanks for the feedback, that was pretty much what I was wondering, since the q700s seem to do a pretty alright job on their own. I auditioned some q950s for a laugh, and I can certainly see how that might be the case.

I used the idea from @jonathan18 and setup one of my Infinity R162 speakers as a rough center, and I now realise just how much audio is carried on the center channel, so I agree, I think it would pair well with the q600/q650. It's a shame that they don't seem to pop up second hand though.

timbosan

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#2195676 11-Mar-2019 10:38

I have an XQ center (with matching XQ fronts and rears) and find the center speaker is key. Mind you I have the front's quite far apart, so the center ties the 'front stage' together nicely. Don't forget in a movie something like 50% of the sound is dialog (there is quote for this somewhere from someone key in the industry) and a front speaker is where that audio is designed to come from.

driller2000

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#2195705 11-Mar-2019 11:08

jonathan18: Is there an option of seeing if you can borrow a centre speaker of any kind (but of good enough quality) just to see what your sense of whether it makes a big enough difference to pursue it further?

Perhaps even a local HiFi shop may be willing to lend you one for a day? Or a member here maybe (where do you live?).

My first centre nearly 20 years ago didn't match the fronts I had then, nor when I replaced those Image 302s with Paradigms. Once I could afford the $700 for a matching centre I jumped at the upgrade, but in no way do I regret having had that Polk centre for those three or so years.

YMMV!

Agree a test would be worthwhile.

Also agree that a (good) centre is vital and after 20 odd years of having one in my HT set ups I would never not have one as it is key for dialogue placement.

Personally I have never been that fussed about matching speakers (I am no audiophile) - and currently run Wharfedale Evo2 40 fronts - with a Energy C100 centre (so not matched) and have been very happy with it.

So yeah - get a loaner centre - test it and see if its worth it to you.

bmr63

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#2196175 11-Mar-2019 23:21

Well I’m not Q series owner but as we are talking about whether to have a Centre......

.....I had a couple of Kef C55’s for many years, and had a little Chario Centre. I was very happy with the result and always remember how much adding a Centre improved the Home Theatre experience.

More recently I updated the mains, skipping over the Q series to the R series, getting some R500’s (very happy). I got a bit worried if I should then match up the Centre eventually getting a Kef R200c. It’s a nice speaker, I’m happy with it.....but not absolutely sure the difference was worth the price....

So that’s my 10cents worth

Steve

ShinyChrome

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#2196423 12-Mar-2019 10:56

@timbosan, @driller2000 Thanks for the feedback guys. After (very) roughly testing it myself with a bookshelf speaker, I completely agree. I'll most likely get the matching center just because the price difference between a nice s/h one and the Q650c is minimal. And it will satisfy my OCD/WAF if they all match haha.

@bmr63 Thanks for that, sounds like a good upgrade. I have been wondering about the R500 myself as a future upgrade (especially if they dip down in price!), still have yet to find anywhere that has them for demo though. I have heard they aren't as forward (?) as the Q series for HT, but that you would need them side-by-side to notice.

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bmr63

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#2196528 12-Mar-2019 14:03

ShinyChrome:
@timbosan, @driller2000 Thanks for the feedback guys. After (very) roughly testing it myself with a bookshelf speaker, I completely agree. I'll most likely get the matching center just because the price difference between a nice s/h one and the Q650c is minimal. And it will satisfy my OCD/WAF if they all match haha.

@bmr63 Thanks for that, sounds like a good upgrade. I have been wondering about the R500 myself as a future upgrade (especially if they dip down in price!), still have yet to find anywhere that has them for demo though. I have heard they aren't as forward (?) as the Q series for HT, but that you would need them side-by-side to notice.

The r500’s gave me heaps more low end, and in a smaller form factor than the Q series. I’ve noticed how my Yamaha HT Amp is much more selective when using my sub for movies once set up with these speakers. For music they are are very nice indeed.

I’m in Dunedin and had to work to get them. Couldn’t demo as the selection down here is minimal. I was lucky in that JB’s briefly had a guy down here who would go the extra mile for a customer and he ordered the r500’s down. He had left by the time my OCD took hold, so I got the r200c via Rapallo AV. Took forever, but the price was better than some other options. So had heard neither before committing to the sale, but have always liked the Uni-q setup and the reviews for the r series were good.

Steve