New LNB roll-out

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James Bond

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Topic # 24880 5-Aug-2008 17:48

Are they going to replace the wiring too? If so, would that include the entire RG6 cable from the dish to the box?

cyril7

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Reply # 154403 5-Aug-2008 17:56

The new LNBs require a minumum of two leads, and maybe three if you have more boxs. However to see both orbit slots requires two leads to a HDi, and one to a standard box. Alternatively they could provide two from the LNB to a multi switch, and run two from that to a HDi or SD MySky and one to each standard box.

Cyril

MattD

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Reply # 154408 5-Aug-2008 18:16

We had a dual LNB installed last year. Is that sufficient for future HDi or will it need upgrading again when 4 channel support comes in?

edit: should have mentioned that we were upgraded to HDi yesterday and new point installed for multiroom. No LNB change nor new wiring for existing lounge unit, so assuming it might be the 4 channels in future.

DjShadow

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Reply # 154420 5-Aug-2008 18:44

I'm wondering how multi dwelling units sharing 1 dish are going to get on like this e.g the retirement village my olds are in share a single dish, if HD is running off 2 satellites and they merge the signals down 1 cable?

cyril7

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Reply # 154426 5-Aug-2008 19:05

The dual throat LNB that sky has been installing for some 18-24months is only single output, so will not satisfy the ultimate needs of multi tuner situations such as PVRs will need.

Just to clarify a few things, the satellite (Optus D3) that Sky will expand its services on at 156E is not expected to leave the bounds of planet earth till early 2009. Further, the new LNBs are not expected till sometime early next month (Sept). So not a lot will change in the very short future.

My speculation also is that Sky will continue to expand SD services on D1, there is 20-30 SD channels worth of capacity still available on D1, so if they limit HD expansion to D3 (once launched) then they only have to ensure that HDi customers are upgraded for the next year or so. It will take quite awhile to upgrade all 750k subscribers, it wont happen overnight, and controls the level of new LNB rollout needed.

As for MDUs (multidwelling units) which have been and continue to be fitted with a single line backbone. Sky have mentioned that in those situations they will use frequency stacking to allow both Hpol feeds from D1 and D3 to be delivered over one coax. My guess it that this solution may end up being deliervered to more complex single dwellings also. It entails the new LNB (as described) with two outputs from it giving a Hpol feed of each orbit location, a small box containing the stacker will fit directly below it, this will combine both orbit locations onto one coax feed, using a variant in the LNB setup parameters in the firmware it will allow an tuner to see both orbit locations by utilising dynamic LO descriptors, ie just a software change.

Edit: The stacker in this situation may infact be as simple as a filtered combiner. D3 is to deliver low band capacity that D1 does not, so maybe a simple combiner with some filter function to isolate the two and only using a single common 10750 LO, I have not analyesed the exact performance that could be acheived from such a simple arrangement, nor what exact band plans Optus intend to use and what polarity isolation they intend to use, but such a simple device could be possible.

Cyril

MattD

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Reply # 154433 5-Aug-2008 19:31

Cyril, thanks for a very comprehensive response. That clariifies. Shame they could not have performed the cabling update during the same visit yesterday, so will need to return in the next 6-12mths, when equipment becomes available.

As for firmware updates in the HDi, will this be transmitted OTA via satellite or will I need to connect to phone or ethernet?

Possibly a long way off.

cyril7

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Reply # 154450 5-Aug-2008 20:25

Sky intend to use a simese cable that is two coaxs in one sheath to reduce cabling effort, not that two or three discrete cables could not be used. As I understand neither the cable nor LNBs have arrived in NZ so no upgrades are happening.

All firmware upgrades are via the satellite, never the phone line. Its quite possible that the needed firmware exissts in the current firmware, its all a matter of what LNB setup parametes are used.

Cyril

JaBZ

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Reply # 154503 5-Aug-2008 23:03

So how do you suppose they will handle the like of my situation? Where i have 90CM dish and own LNB. Will the installer come over and hand the LNB to me for install?
I had pre-cabled 3 x RG6 going downstairs, and 1 x to a multiroom so will use those, I'd rather them not cable with their simese cable.

My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..

cyril7

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Reply # 154526 6-Aug-2008 06:59

Hi, as I said earlier, the use of the simese cable is simply for convienence, you get two cables layed for the effort of one, so if you already have three in place then use that.

As for your 90cm dish, my guess (note guessing) is they wont install on it, reason, if the LNB is built in the same format as the current sharp dual orbit location monoblocks then it has a smaller than usual waveguide throat that is used to clamp, if you cannot get a suitable clamp for your dish as opposed to the one supplied to fit a winegard then your stuffed. Also the LNB would be dimensioned to peak on a 60-70cm dish, the focal length of a 90cm is 50% larger and may not be optimised.

Cyril

James Bond

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Reply # 154683 6-Aug-2008 16:31

cyril7:
The new LNBs require a minumum of two leads, and maybe three if you have more boxs. However to see both orbit slots requires two leads to a HDi, and one to a standard box. Alternatively they could provide two from the LNB to a multi switch, and run two from that to a HDi or SD MySky and one to each standard box.

Cyril

Would that be quad shield RG6 that they are going to install? This might sound silly but the reason why I'm asking is because I'm replacing the RG6 cable that goes from the wall plate to the box and I was just wondering if I should get quad shield.

Would something like this be quad shield?

http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/489924970a912398273fc0a87f3b0715/Product/View/W1201

If not, who sells it?

cyril7

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Reply # 154703 6-Aug-2008 17:21

Sky currently specify Belden Duobond (plus a couple of other certified brands but all duobond), I recommend you buy a cable that states on it Sky Satellite approved 3GHz, or they may reject to use it. Not that its unlikely, but quad shield is not needed for Lband QPSK/8PSK applications.

Cyril

kevthesparky

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Reply # 154756 6-Aug-2008 20:33

I have run siamese cable to each TV/Sat outlet in a 19 unit apartment block (108 outlets) in Petone that we are working on and will be installing a 5 wire multiswitch system.
Siamese is quadshield currently we are having problems making off the cables at the flush box. One lead has the diplexor on it to seperate the VHF/UHF and Sat feed and the other lead is a dedicated Sat feed.
Because the cable is joined together when making them off at the outlet you seperate the two but when you are working in a confined space it is difficult to seperate them enough to push the cable back into the wall without kinking the cable as it is joined together. Siamese serves our purposes for doing multidwelling installations if I was to do a residential dwelling I would just run out two seperate quad rg6 as it is alot better to work with or if you do use siamese and you are prewiring seperate the cable a good meter before you put into flush box this will reduce the chances of kinking the cable and make it eaiser to make the outlet off later.

allstarnz

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Reply # 154772 6-Aug-2008 21:29

so with the imminent arrival of D3, does that then spell the end of C1?

cyril7

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Reply # 154829 7-Aug-2008 07:25

No D3 will fly with C1 at 156E, D3 will have lower band capacity 11700-12250 that C1 does not have. It is pretty normal in both Europe and the US to fly multiple satellites at the same location, some slots have 4-5, obviously they are several kms apart but as seen from here are only a portion of a degree seperate.

Kev, I have used simese before also, its a bit of a pain especially when in conduit such as concrete walls after one job of struggling your realise to split it right back to the ceiling (when pulling through too late otherwise) and a foot or more beyond so each part can find its own slack to prevent problems. Can still be ackward if there is a couple of cat5s in the conduit as well.

Cyril

allstarnz

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Reply # 154852 7-Aug-2008 09:13

thanks for that Cyril, good to know