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Fat bottom Trump
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# 251641 4-Jul-2019 14:09
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I am not a gamer but I use an Nvidia Shield for streaming. I have never been able to get anything other than stereo sound on it but since the stuff we like to watch is generally only in stereo I have never made a big effort to fix this. Now I would like to be able to stream DD 5.1 sources but I can't seem to get it to work with YouTube test videos. 

 

Our receiver is an old Yamaha without HDMI inputs so we use s/pdif optical and coax inputs for audio. It is capable of DD 5.1 surround sound and this works fine with other devices. Since the Shield does not have a discrete audio output, I am using an audio extractor to get the audio from the HDMI connector. This device passes the HDMI through as it extracts the audio and that appears to work correctly. There are three switch settings for audio pass through, 2 channel audio and 5.1 channel audio. All of these work for stereo, but no 5.1 even with a 5.1 source (YouTube). 

 

I have gone through the settings on the Shield and also on Kodi, which I am also using, but nothing I do seems to make a difference. Can anyone help me with this? I'm not sure what else to try. 

 

 





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  # 2269913 4-Jul-2019 14:19
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"This device passes the HDMI through as it extracts the audio and that appears to work correctly"

 

How do you know it is working correctly? Does the receiver indicate that it is receiving 5.1? 

 

Why both spdif and coax for audio? You should only need one. 

 

Personally, I'd upgrade the receiver, buy a cheapie off trademe. 

 

Check the nvidia shield settings, make sure it is set to output 5.1 through hdmi. And, check on your source video , ensure you are playing the 5.1 track. Some videos have multiple audio tracks, you need to select the right one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2269943 4-Jul-2019 15:03
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Do you have optical out on your TV? Most, not all, TVs will pass through DD 5.1 on optical when received from an HDMI cable.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2269949 4-Jul-2019 15:21
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I was looking into a similar issue yesterday, but specifically in relation to DD 5.1 on YouTube. I have no issue getting discrete sound from both the apps on my TV and an Amazon Fire TV via Kodi, Amazon Prime, Netflix etc, but have no luck with YouTube.

A number of sites I read yesterday claimed that YouTube audio is all only 2.0, no matter its original format. I did read that Red content may be in 5.1.

I have no idea of the accuracy of this information, but it would explain why I've not even managed to get Dolby-produced clips on YouTube in discrete sound!

Have you tried audio from any other source?

(BTW, can anyone confirm whether YouTube content ever offers discrete sound, as opposed to a receiver-originated attempt at 'upscaling' the audio?)



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  # 2270011 4-Jul-2019 16:32
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Thanks for the tips. I am still working my way through the perambulations but I can add some information. First, a Google search provides several DD 5.1 test links and I have been trying those for testing because I do not subscribe to any services that are known to offer dd 5.1. There is even a demo clip of a helicopter flying through a gorge, but I only get it in stereo. I am assuming these clips actually are 5.1. Otherwise why have them at all?

 

Second, my TV is a pre-Android Sony and it does have a digital out that I also use. Some audio comes from different devices, some from the TV. I have a combo box that receives both DVB-S and DVB-T. When I switch to UHF, I get DD 5.1 through both the direct output and via the TV, so I know that is working. But I don't know how to test this with streaming video on the Shield except with YouTube. Maybe someone has a DD 5.1 link that is known to work?

 

Third, I have gone through all the audio settings on the Shield and Kodi, which I am also using, but nothing seems to make a difference. Both are set for digital raw. I can't say for absolute certain that the audio extractor is working correctly, which is why I said it 'appears to', but I get stereo sound on all settings and video works normally, so those are certainly working and the suggests that the rest probably is as well. I have no other way of testing it.

 

I am using both optical and coax for digital audio because the inputs on my receiver are limited. I do not have the means or desire to replace my receiver, which works perfectly well, at this time. Even a 'cheap' one on Trade Me would probably cost hundreds of dollars for something of decent quality and I don't have that kind of cash lying around. 

 

 





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  # 2270012 4-Jul-2019 16:46
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If you posted the links to the files that you believe will okay in 5.1 I'd be happy to try them out for you.

Are they on YouTube? Because I've also tried videos claiming to be in 5.1 and they've certainly not played like this, which supports the claims I reported that YouTube simply doesn't support the form.

Can I suggest that another source of material you can be sure of being in 5.1 is Netflix, and they offer a free trial. It could be easier and quicker to sign up for this.

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  # 2270068 4-Jul-2019 17:31
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I doubt yotube addon through Kodi (im assuming you are using it as a 1 stop shop? not specified but it reads it) would do the same as youtube on its own

 

Against all odds, Kodi should be set to 2 channel speakers. And then enabling spdif passthrough. 5.1 is encoded down the 2 channel path. Setting it as 5.1 expects an amp to receive and decode all 6 signals.

 

 

 

https://kodi.wiki/view/Audio_troubleshooting#Why_5.1_is_possible_when_number_of_channels_is_2.0.3F




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  # 2270082 4-Jul-2019 17:37
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They sure don't make it easy, do they? Thanks for the tip. I will look into it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2270103 4-Jul-2019 18:35
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The Shield has its own YouTube app, which won't be affected by any in-app settings within Kodi, so if YouTube can indeed play actual 5.1 then that's one way to negate any Kodi-specific issues.

 

But, that said, I'm yet to read any evidence that YouTube does indeed provide for a 5.1 audio stream, as opposed to downmixing to 2.0, nor read any posts here from members who state that they get proper, discrete 5.1 audio from YouTube videos (as opposed to any in-receiver up-mixing going on). I'd love for this info to be wrong, so please tell me if it is!

 

Here's one person's explanation as to how YouTube deals with 5.1 (main points highlighted); it's four years old, so I can't be sure that things haven't changed, but equally I've not found anything to say they have changed, and have read more recent material that acknowledges the lack of 5.1.

 

 

Here's our little test... Say you created a video with 5.1 sound effects for each channel: -1 front right (meow) -2 front left (bark) -3 center (laugh) -4 rear right (quack) -5 rear left (tweet) -6 woofer/LFE (buzz)

 

Before 5.1 was supported

 

If you attempted to upload these sound effects, you would only hear 1(meow) and 2(bark) after the video was published to Youtube. This means you have lost 3(laugh), 4(quack), 5(tweet), 6(buzz). Youtube didn't recognize the 5.1 format and left them out of the final published video.

 

Now that 5.1 is supported 

 

If you upload a video with these sound effects today, Youtube will take those extra channels 3(laugh), 4(quack), 5(tweet) and downmix them into 2.0 speaker output. This means the final video, after being published, will now contain these sound effects that would have been lost previously.

 

The disappointment

 

5.1 audio support on Youtube does NOT mean you will not hear 3(laugh) on your center speaker or 4(quack) and 5(tweet) on your rear speakers "independently". You will NEVER hear 6(buzz) because LFE is not supported on youtube. It really should say "Youtube supports 5.0 audio", not "5.1". Yes it is a misnomer: 5.1 support on youtube does not mean you will hear sounds on each speaker independently. 5.1 support only means that youtube "reads" the audio from extra channels (as it hasn't before) and turns them into 2.0 output so you can now hear all the sounds in stereo.

 

If you want to hear sound on all speakers, go into your sound card settings (realtek for example) and click "speaker fill". This is not surround sound, it just sends the same audio channel (mono) to all 5 speakers, thus you will hear the exact same sounds coming from front left/right, center, rear right/left. You still will not hear LFE.

 

Note: If you wish to download the video sample, go here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Wu... If you play the file from the link in Media Player, you WILL hear sounds coming from each speaker independently as well as the LFE. Notices at 0:10, in Media Player, you will hear LFE, but you won't hear it in the Youtube upload.

 

 

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYhwx0lipyM

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2270577 5-Jul-2019 15:16
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Have you tried under kodi sound settings "allow passthrough" and selecting dolby etc? I have to do this for my Bose to get 5.1


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  # 2270581 5-Jul-2019 15:31
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NVIDIA recommends the following USB to Digital Optical Audio (SPDIF) adapters:
     - Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro II USB Analog & Digital Audio Adapter
     - Vantec USB External 7.1 Channel Audio Adapter

Maybe thats an option? 60 bucks ain't too bad.

 


https://www.fishpond.co.nz/Electronics/Vantec-USB-External-71-Channel-Audio-Adapter/0191120008172?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=ps&utm_campaign=NZ&gclid=CjwKCAjwx_boBRA9EiwA4kIELsvEuOUmo0_vpJvHakW921E63Sngxh2TEOlXlAc5jKhGUE1GQl2O0RoCyJ8QAvD_BwE


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  # 2270591 5-Jul-2019 15:51
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i was sure i replied to this earlier, but it didn't seam to 'stick'...

 

 

 

anyway, afaik, youtube originals (premium/red) are in 5.1. i can confirm this later.

 

not sure of other youtube videos. i wouldn't be surprised if they're getting downmixed.

 

if you send a link to one of them vids you're testing with, i can verify those, too.

 

 




Fat bottom Trump
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  # 2270611 5-Jul-2019 16:57
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Here is an update. 

 

I don't know why they make this so hard. It is like they don't want anyone to stream surround sound. I just spent the better part of the day working my way through this systematically. To try to eliminate some variables, I searched for a (non YouTube) test file that was almost certain to actually be dd 5.1. I set the Shield to always play 5.1 on USB and copied the file to a flash drive. This I plugged into the Shield.

 

The file played fine, full DD 5.1, no possible question about that. It worked directly and also via Kodi. It also worked through the Sony pass through output so I didn't actually need the 5.1 audio extractor, though that worked as well. To be clear, the file was on a USB drive plugged into the Shield. I played it from Kodi using the media file function. The HDMI output of the Shield is connected to the Sony TV so the audio path was through the HDMI cable to the TV, then via the TV output to the Yamaha receiver. All of this works fine so I have to conclude that the audio settings for both Kodi and the Shield are correct. The test file I used came from here: https://www.lynnemusic.com/surround.html

 

But I still can't stream any surround sound. Everything I stream comes out stereo, regardless of what it says. The fact that there is so much apparent uncertainty about whether YouTube even supports surround sound doesn't help. Can't they at least just say so one way or the other? 

 

Most non-YouTube test files I can find on-line have to be downloaded, but there are some streaming files on archive.org that seem to be actual dd 5.1 audio. When I stream them, though, I only get stereo. https://archive.org/details/5.1SurroundSoundTestFilesVariousFormatsAACAC3MP4DTSWAV

 

So Dolby surround works fine from USB files and also from my UHF tuner, but not from any stream I can access. I haven't tried Netflix and I don't really want to since that will use up my free trial, but I suspect that probably won't work either. Anyway, I'm not sure what to try next. Surround sound does work on my Shield, just not from any stream I can find. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

 





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  # 2270618 5-Jul-2019 17:24
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So is every attempt you've made to stream video been via Kodi, or are there other (non-YouTube) apps that you can try on your Shield?

 

I get it that Kodi played the downloaded file ok, but I still think it would be useful to see if a less customisable app (which is therefore less vulnerable to incorrect settings) plays in 5.1 or not. I have way more problems with Kodi than all the other apps I use on our video devices combined.

 

If there isn't another VOD service with a native Shield app you can use without a sub, and given you've spent much of the day on this already, I still recommend creating a Netflix account to test it. I imagine it's fairly feasible to set up another account using a different email address at a later date if you're worried about that - but personally I'd be doing that.

 

And as for the DD 5.1 support on YouTube - I really think I've provided enough evidence that it doesn't, and no-one has provided any evidence to the contrary. FWIW, a bit earlier I tried playing a number of video clips on our other home theatre, and not one (including all those I played from Dolby's own channel) played in 5.1. Sure, some sounded pretty damn good for non-discrete sound, but it still wasn't 5.1.

 

Agree it would be good if there was more certainty about this, but I suggest focus on trying to get 5.1 from a service that you can be sure provides it, eg Netflix, Amazon Prime.

 

Oh, the other option could be signing up for a trial of YouTube Red or whatever their subscription service is called. I have read that this supports DD 5.1, so there'll be content which is in this format - but it will certainly be trickier to find material that you know is (unlike Netflix etc, where everything they produce themselves will be in it).




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  # 2270624 5-Jul-2019 17:43
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I have tried streaming directly to the Shield using the Chrome browser app on it. I also downloaded VLC and told the Shield to always use it when playing something from Chrome. I'm sure I can think of other things to try tomorrow but I have had enough for now.

 

 





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Fat bottom Trump
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  # 2273906 10-Jul-2019 11:57
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I have now explored this as far as I feel able. I am not a technician and I am not an ‘expert’ in any of this, so I could well be missing a lot of stuff that I just don’t understand, but for me trying to stream 5.1 surround sound has been a thoroughly frustrating and unsatisfying experience, to put it mildly.

 

When it comes to DD 5.1, the Internet seems to be in a state of complete confusion. It is surprisingly hard to find clear, correct information about any of this. It is also possible that Google has completely stuffed up the implementation of audio standards that should have made this kind of thing a simple, straightforward process on YouTube at least. I’m not sure. It depends on who you listen to.

 

I don’t know if someone with a $10,000 home theatre system would have a different experience than I have. I suspect not. But for the sake of clarity, all I am trying to do is get streamed Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound, the original, old-fashioned kind, just two front speakers and two surround ones, along with a centre speaker and sub-woofer, to play on my ancient Yamaha (which works perfectly, by the way).

 

I have done a lot of tests and gone down a lot of rabbit holes. This is the distilled result of all that.

 

DD 5.1 works fine on my system. If I play a USB file that actually is Dolby surround (more confusion, misinformation and surprisingly hard to come by), it works just like it should. Discrete sound from all channels. Not to be confused with another huge Google cow pat which upmixes stereo and feeds it out all the speakers, causing a lot of people who don’t know better to swear that they are hearing surround sound, which it isn’t.

 

DD 5.1 also works fine from either my Android device or my Win 10 laptop. In both cases all channels light up on the amp and true surround sound comes out the speakers. There is nothing wrong with the system. I have also tested the digital output on my Sony TV and this works, too. Any HDMI with DD 5.1 audio that is fed to the TV, produces DD 5.1 audio on the digital audio out, which then goes to my amp. It works exactly as it should.

 

There are a lot of DD 5.1 test sites on the Internet, especially YouTube. As far as I can tell, none of them actually works. Whatever I stream, it all comes out stereo. Even the Dolby sites. Is this some kind of plot?

 

Is it the browser’s fault? Again, actual information seems almost impossible to come by. Maybe we are supposed to guess. Yes, specialised apps (like Netflix) do work correctly. Maybe VLC also does. I couldn’t get it to work but that may just be me. But nothing streamed with any browser does. It doesn’t matter what they claim. It is all just boring old stereo. Why should this be?

 

YouTube doesn’t work, so I searched for test sites other than YouTube. They don’t work either. Not AC3, AAC, MP4, or anything else I could find. If I download the file and play it through the USB port, it works as it should. If I play the online version with the browser, I just get stereo. Is this because of some problem with my system? I don’t think so, but I don’t know.

 

My best guess is that no regular web browser is capable of playing 5.1 audio from any HTTP stream. I could certainly be wrong about this. I haven’t tested many browsers but this is my impression. Certainly there are Android apps (Netflix) that can play 5.1, and possibly even Windows ones (I don’t know), but the Chrome browser doesn’t seem to have this capability and I doubt any others do. I have tested with both Android and Windows. If it can be played with a browser, it isn’t surround sound. Even most download files aren’t, regardless of what they say. The rare ones that have worked for me are all AC3 encoded. I haven’t found any AAC file that works. The same is true of other formats.

 

Other than YouTube, a small handful of test sites exists with DD 5.1. These have spoken outputs for left, right, centre, SL, SR, LFE. Which speaker is operating can easily be verified. If I play any of these links, I get front speakers only. I hear the surround channels, but only from the front speakers. But if I download the links and play the files through USB, I get true DD 5.1 audio. Again, this strongly suggests that the browser is the problem. If that is true, it sure would be helpful if someone would just say so once and for all.

 

The frustrating difficulty with surround sound is that many different things can stop it from working. Sometimes more than one problem is at fault. Trying to figure out why something doesn’t work under these circumstances can be an exercise in futility. This is not helped by all the confused, inaccurate, and misleading information all over the Internet. To my surprise, even Dolby themselves seem to be part of this conspiracy of confusion. Do the Dolby test links on YouTube produce true 5.1 sound or not? This shouldn’t be a hard question but It seems impossible to find a clear answer. Does YouTube play any surround sound? You would think someone could provide a clear yes or no answer to that, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. As far as I have been able to determine from a lot of experimenting, it doesn’t. Does any browser play 5.1? Not as far as I can tell. So even if it does work on YouTube, you might not be able to hear it.

 

What I find perplexing about all this is that there are many 5.1 test links on the web, both YouTube and elsewhere. Some are download only, but some can also be streamed. Download works as it should, streamed only gives stereo sound, regardless of what it says. I sure wish someone had told me this in the beginning.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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