Upgrading HT to ATMOS

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FineWine

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#251666 5-Jul-2019 17:53

I have decided it is time to upgrade my venerable 2003 Sony STR-DB790 A/V receiver. This powers the 2003 Sony SA-VE345 micro stand based speakers system which are great. I bought an additional rear centre speaker to make a 6:1 surround sound system which the STR-DB790 was designed for.

I have nearly decided on a Yamaha RX-V1085 A/V receiver as want the latest connectivity: [AirPlay 2, Blue-tooth & WiFi) and ATMOS & DTS-X as well as two zones [lounge HT & patio stereo speakers) plus all the other bells, whistles & tricks it has.

But I am in two minds about keeping the existing Sony speaker system. If I do I will have to just buy two (not 4) front based ATMOS upward firing speakers. Of course the present centre rear will become superfluous.

https://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/speakers/center_surround/skh-410/index.html

https://www.elac.com/product/a4-2/

https://www.kefdirect.com/q50a-dolby-atmos-speaker.html

https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/speakers/ss-cse

https://www.klipsch.com/products/r-14sa-dolby-atmos-speaker

Which are all available in NZ.

OR go all out and buy a whole new 5:1:2 speaker system which is starting to get out of our spending limit.

My partner has suggested we buy two new column front speakers and sit the two ATMOS speakers on top and keep the existing Sony front centre & two Sony rear back speakers. We are only looking to spend around $500 - $750 for the two front columns.

We do not want wall or ceiling speakers and we have concrete floors with the current wiring under the carpet around the edges.

We also have a very unusual open plan layout.

Any experiences with the above stand alone ATMOS speakers and any other thoughts and ideas please.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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Wannabe Geek

#2270637 5-Jul-2019 18:09

Hey,

I have a 5.2.2 setup in my lounge/movie room.

Couple of issues with your intended bouncy off the ceiling speakers. Do you have flat ceilings? Are you speakers evenly placed/spaced as the sound may or may not fall in front or behind your listening position.

You are better off using a speaker like the SVS Prime Elevations and positioning on the walls if you do not want in-ceiling or in-wall speakers.

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation

I have found onkyo to not be very good - I had failures and the sound was not that great. I use Marantz but Yamaha is one of the best.

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avreceivers&ProductId=SR6013

Also with the shape of your room budget to run 2 subwoofers minimum or the peaks and nulls will be to much. Plus there is alot of air to move in that room so it can be a struggle to give real feeling to movies.

https://www.svsound.com/pages/subwoofers#1000-series

PB-1000 for movies or if you can stretch go PB-2000. I have had both but switch down a different path.

Hope that helps.

Dunnersfella

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#2270691 5-Jul-2019 20:49

The amplifier you have chosen will do everything you want. It'll play 5.1.2 when you need, then when you turn on Zone 2 it will turn off the ATMOS modules and play the outdoor speakers.

Sorted.

I would say that the up-firing modules from Klipsch, Elac and Kef would be the brands I would consider.

Re: front floor standing speakers, try and find speakers that match the ATMOS module brands, then later on, add a matching centre as there's a good chance it won't keep up with the new floor standing fronts.

I will say that I have found some ATMOS modules to be poor, but they were typically the tiny and rather crappy Onkyo versions... whereas I've heard the Klipsch and they have the 'oomph' to work quite effectively due to their high efficiency.

FineWine

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Nurse (R)

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#2274201 10-Jul-2019 17:56

Thanks guys all your replies

I have decided on and bought a Yamaha RX-V1085 A/V receiver as we want the latest connectivity: [AirPlay 2, Blue-tooth & WiFi) and ATMOS & DTS-X as well as two zones [lounge HT & patio stereo speakers) plus all the other bells, whistles & tricks it has.

Paid $1800 delivered 4 hours after order to my front door. 😀 Thanks to the The Cable Guy in Tauranga

Had fun setting it up and love the latest in sound effects and best of all its connectivity; DLAN WiFi, AirPlay2, BlueTooth headphones, zone 2 patio stereo speakers and the HDMI ARC link with the TV. Shame my 2014 Panasonic is not 4k or greater.

Have decided to hold off on the ATMOS speakers for the time being and just go with my 5:1 speaker system which is doing a great job with the new receiver. Though had virtually decided on the ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2 Atmos Modules.

So on with the show.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Dunnersfella

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#2274343 10-Jul-2019 21:15

Good result!
Enjoy the amp and keep us up to date if you go with ATMOS.

jonathan18

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#2274351 10-Jul-2019 21:30

@Dunnersfella: while on the topic of upfiring speakers for Atmos - would these be an acceptable (and worthwhile) addition to my current HT, set up in a very conventionally-shaped room about 6.? x 4.? and with a 2.4m stud? It's an external space dedicated to the HT as well, so has no rooms coming off it or other complications.

And how critical is timbre matching of the Atmos speakers to the fronts/centre? I've got Paradigms across the front, but my budget is such that I'd probably be looking at paying for something like the Elacs, as opposed to a full replacement of my speakers.

And, finally, we've currently got a 7.1 set-up - am I best to retain those extra surrounds and go for a beefier amp that supports 7.2.1, or remove one of the rear sets and stick with a 5.2.1-based set-up?

Thanks for any advice.

[Edit - context is I'm looking at getting a new TV at some point, so will look to upgrade the receiver at the same time to something that supports 4k passthrough; hence, it's inevitable that any receiver I buy will have Atmos]

lchiu7

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#2274767 11-Jul-2019 18:37

FineWine:

Thanks guys all your replies

I have decided on and bought a Yamaha RX-V1085 A/V receiver as we want the latest connectivity: [AirPlay 2, Blue-tooth & WiFi) and ATMOS & DTS-X as well as two zones [lounge HT & patio stereo speakers) plus all the other bells, whistles & tricks it has.

Paid $1800 delivered 4 hours after order to my front door. 😀 Thanks to the The Cable Guy in Tauranga

Had fun setting it up and love the latest in sound effects and best of all its connectivity; DLAN WiFi, AirPlay2, BlueTooth headphones, zone 2 patio stereo speakers and the HDMI ARC link with the TV. Shame my 2014 Panasonic is not 4k or greater.

Have decided to hold off on the ATMOS speakers for the time being and just go with my 5:1 speaker system which is doing a great job with the new receiver. Though had virtually decided on the ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2 Atmos Modules.

So on with the show.

I bought the Elac speakers from Amazon when they had free shipping to NZ :-) I have flat ceilings so the bounce effects are pretty good.

I don't have a lot of content but I started with the demo Dolby Atmos tracks on the Dolby Web site. That really shows you what good Atmos can be like.

Then I watched Transformers - Revenge of the Fallen (!). The opening sequence is outstanding and really stresses your HT system.

Skyscraper (pretty good) for Atmos

Get the speakers - you won't be disappointed.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

jonathan18

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#2275836 13-Jul-2019 15:14

jonathan18:

@Dunnersfella: while on the topic of upfiring speakers for Atmos - would these be an acceptable (and worthwhile) addition to my current HT, set up in a very conventionally-shaped room about 6.? x 4.? and with a 2.4m stud? It's an external space dedicated to the HT as well, so has no rooms coming off it or other complications.

And how critical is timbre matching of the Atmos speakers to the fronts/centre? I've got Paradigms across the front, but my budget is such that I'd probably be looking at paying for something like the Elacs, as opposed to a full replacement of my speakers.

And, finally, we've currently got a 7.1 set-up - am I best to retain those extra surrounds and go for a beefier amp that supports 7.2.1, or remove one of the rear sets and stick with a 5.2.1-based set-up?

Thanks for any advice.

[Edit - context is I'm looking at getting a new TV at some point, so will look to upgrade the receiver at the same time to something that supports 4k passthrough; hence, it's inevitable that any receiver I buy will have Atmos]

@Dunnersfella or anyone else with expertise/wide experience with Atmos - would really appreciate your feedback on the above. Thanks!

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FineWine

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#2275906 13-Jul-2019 16:49

@Dunnersfella:

Re: front floor standing speakers, try and find speakers that match the ATMOS module brands, then later on, add a matching centre as there's a good chance it won't keep up with the new floor standing fronts.

To enable less clutter and be more minimalist I will also be looking at a set of front column speakers with built-in upward firing ATMOS which of course would have to have two separate driver connections per speaker column. I would really prefer a thin style similar to the Pioneer SP-EFS73 Dolby Atmos® enabled Elite® Concentric Floor standing Speakers designed by Andrew Jones. But am having trouble finding those in New Zealand. Pioneer also make a bookshelf range as well for those that would prefer a smaller profile: Pioneer SP-EBS73-LR.

But as ATMOS is still fairly new to the market not all speaker manufactures have come on board yet.

Any leads to similar speakers as the above Pioneer range, available in NZ, would be appreciated.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Dunnersfella

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#2275977 13-Jul-2019 18:00

The Pioneer's are about 5 years old and despite their designer... they never really managed to sell well.

The main reason was they're 4ohms and very low sensitivity (84-85dB).

Meaning not only were they hard to drive and asked a lot from their amp, they required decent amplification to 'get going'.

Ultimately, they liked an expensive amplifier - but they were budget priced.

Meaning they didn't often mate well with amps... and at the time of manufacture there weren't any 5-7 year old ATMOS amps kicking around you could throw at them for very little money.
So, yeah.

Dunnersfella

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#2275982 13-Jul-2019 18:11

Re: Matching Elac's with Paradigm.

It would have to depend on what Paradigm's you're using. The Debut series is a very middle of the road sounding loud speaker, i don't mean this in a negative way, it's good at most things and not terrible anywhere else. You won't be gripped by the throat and shaken, but nor will you end up snoozing...

Some people don't 'get that' and wonder what all the fuss is about - so there's certainly 'no pleasing everyone'.

Ultimately bouncy ATMOS speakers at the front will help, but I would always choose 5.1.4 over 7.1.2.
Without it, the experience is typically 'okay'... but the full banana is much bettererer.
Make sure you have a flat ceiling and it's not too high and in my experience it will offer more to your experience than adding extra surround speakers.

FineWine

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#2278223 17-Jul-2019 11:57

Some feed back on my experience with my new toy. As I stated above had fun setting it all up and enjoyed the learning curve.

However:

I could not get Zone 2 (Patio speakers) to work. Now, I had to make up from scratch a 2 mtr twin stereo cable - (4 x banana plugs down to 2 x RCA male plugs) for the L & R female wall outlet to the patio. After I ran my continuity metre across everything, I discovered a nil connection that was due MY poor soldering of a RCA male plug centre pin.🤬

Then I could not get them to be isolated my themselves - Main zone OFF and Zone 2 Patio only ON. Much on line research later I found the correct SetUp combination. Now a happy camper. The instruction manual is a bit vague in some places.

We were also beginning to find that the HDMI ARC (TV ↔ AVR) facility is a bit of a pain and quite slow in response times - hand shakes and talking between devices. (AVR - TV - PVR) So we dropped the ARC facility and just rearrange it to; TV HDMI 1 to AVR HDMI OUT 2. But that bought its own headaches.

Now we had had the Chromcast plugged directly into HDMI 1 on the TV but moved that over to the AVR HDMI 2 (STB) but then the AVR would not release the Chromcast back to Digital TV when finished casting.

So after a quick email to Simon of The Cable Guy in Tauranga who sold us the AVR we have solved everything.

AVR HDMI 1 out ARC ↔ TV HDMI 2 ARC

AVR HDMI 1 in ↔ PVR/DVD

Chromcast → TV

AVR TOC ← TV TOC

AVR component video AV1 (movie) ← TV component video

The ARC talk (handshake) also seems to be quicker now also.

We do like the software upscaling of the picture pass through and had to readjust the TV picture controls a little bit to tone that all down.

Finally we are ordering a new Panasonic PVR remote as I am sick off pulling it apart and cleaning the contacts and plus I have ruined the outside joins pulling it apart every 3 months.

The interesting thing is going to be hooking up the Apple TV when we get it. Would like it to go directly into the AVR, we shall see.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

FineWine

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#2279079 18-Jul-2019 14:56

FineWine: Finally we are ordering a new Panasonic PVR remote as I am sick off pulling it apart and cleaning the contacts and plus I have ruined the outside joins pulling it apart every 3 months.

Apologises for the above formatting, don't know what happened there - perhaps the mods can tidy it up pls.

I ordered the replacement Panasonic remote for our Panasonic Blu-ray PVR DMR-BWT835. This original remote (N2QAYB000756) has been replaced by a more upto date remote (TZT2Q051039) - The Skype button is now Netflex and the Direct Navigator is called Video Menu.

I found two suppliers in NZ. One on TradeMe which was $10 more than Need A Part in Auckland.

I have nothing part 100% praise for Need A Part in Auckland. As I said I ordered after midday yesterday 17/07/19, paid by CC and received it approx 1030 this morning 18/07/19, so less than 24 hours. In fact I did not know it had arrived until I got the email saying it had, I was sitting at my computer and I reason that was about 10 minutes after it actually had been delivered to my box. They also kept me informed all the way: order confirmed, order processed, order on the way, order delivered all with NZ Post tracking.

Cost $53.95 + $7.00 postal tracking Auckland to Tauranga.

Well done guys 10/10

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Loismustdye

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#2284757 28-Jul-2019 10:01

Is the amp still going well? I’m looking at getting the same amp myself as part of a gradual upgrade to a decent home theatre system from the HTIB system. I was looking at the 1085 or the 685 model from Yamaha to start off the upgrade path.
Is there an option with the amp to power small speakers? I would likely be using small satellite speakers initially until I get larger floorstanders etc.

Dunnersfella

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#2284976 28-Jul-2019 20:32

To answer your question re: mating amps with smaller speakers.

If you're running a subwoofer, then make sure to set your speakers to 'small', this will ensure that small drivers don't get stressed trying to drive down low in order to play low bass... that's the job of a powered sub.

The next thing to do is set the volume limit of the amp to 'zero' and not the standard '+16'.

Treat zero as the start of red line... and while the amp can go up and beyond its own red line, doing so is like taking a race car into the red... it won't go well.

Apart from that, the amps you've listed should be more than fine.

FineWine

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#2285159 29-Jul-2019 13:48

Loismustdye: Is the amp still going well? I’m looking at getting the same amp myself as part of a gradual upgrade to a decent home theatre system from the HTIB system. I was looking at the 1085 or the 685 model from Yamaha to start off the upgrade path.

Brilliant - could not be happier. Do not forget to shop around. I got mine for $1800

Loismustdye: Is there an option with the amp to power small speakers? I would likely be using small satellite speakers initially until I get larger floorstanders etc.

Already answered.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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