Running speaker cables under the house and more...

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bazzer

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Topic # 29782 19-Jan-2009 12:32

I'm planning on running my speaker cables under the house. The house is up on poles, so it's easy to get under there. I'm running 3 pairs of cables (for my rears, dining room and outdoor speakers) and while I'm at it I'll probably take some cat5e from the study to the lounge (for my PS3). Is it recommended to run them through some kind of conduit? I was intending to put it through some PVC pipe and attach that under the house rather than fixing the cable directly to the beams (which seems to be the case with the existing electrical/telephone cables). I guess my concern is that the jacket might not be intended for exterier use? I am using this. I went to Bunnings and 32mm PVC pipe costs $10/m, I don't really want to spend that kind of money! I probably need 15m or so, then there's all the connectors, elbows etc. Can I just loosely clip the cable to the beams?

Also, I wanted to run the cables inside the wall, but that's not really feasible because the wall has a textured plaster finish which I think will be difficult to repair. As such, I'm just going to run the cable up the corners of the room/against the door frames as a temporary measure until I come to replaster (shame the cable is silvery black, but oh well...). Can I just drill a big (and/or little) hole in the floorboards and pull the cable through? Particularly where all the cables leave the lounge, firstly the TV is on a "decorative" brick wall that used to be for the fire that I intend to remove a brick from to access the garage behind, then the garage floor will need a sizeable hole (7 cables, 8.5mm cables, tightly packed = 25mm+ so it's not super tight) and there'll be a few gaps in the spaces between the cables which the wife is not too thrilled about (creepy crawlies/drafts etc). What are the better options here?

Finally, on the deck, again I intend to run the cable up the wall because it's easier than getting it under the cladding (i'll probably put it in some conduit and paint to be less conspicuous). Then I intend to run it inside the soffit to the speakers which will be mounted under the eaves. To enable this (and for other reasons) I thought I would install some downlights in the soffit. The holes I cut for them will make it easier to pull the speaker cables through and also I need more light for the deck anyhow. Do I need an electrician to run the mains for the lights? Any other considerations?

Otherwise, is anyone an electrician that would like to come and quote for the job so that it can be done quicker and better than I will do it myself?

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Reply # 190516 19-Jan-2009 13:03

Running cables under your house should be fine (your phones do it :) )

as with power cables, you can run the cable but not legally allowed to connect them to the mains.

Regs

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Reply # 190536 19-Jan-2009 14:27

you should be ok running the cat5 cables in the open air, but make sure you seperate them from your power and speaker cables. I think you will want 50mm clearance between each data, power and speaker to prevent interferance.

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raftcomm

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Reply # 190537 19-Jan-2009 14:27

I personally would run them through PVC pipes or the likes of it just to give that added protection mainly due to the fact that you will be the only person having to replace them and not Telecom.

They also tend to be an inconvenience if for whatever reason, there is a fault in the cable, you need to release all the fasteners from the cable before you can replace it. If fitted through a PVC pipe, at least you can just pull it from one end and leave the PVC secured to its existing position.

If you do intend to expose them to the elements, i would definitely recommend a properly shielded Cat5e cable. Dont go for the cheap ones that have very little shielding.

louian

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Reply # 190730 20-Jan-2009 10:10

Can you run the cables through the ceiling - is that an option you had considered?

Also had you considers in-ceiling speakers? These would also be accessable from the ceiling.

bazzer

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Reply # 190736 20-Jan-2009 10:30

Regs: you should be ok running the cat5 cables in the open air, but make sure you seperate them from your power and speaker cables. I think you will want 50mm clearance between each data, power and speaker to prevent interferance.

There wouldn't be interference between the speaker cables and cat5 would there? I'd think the UTP would have no trouble against what little noise is emanating from the speaker cables at such low voltage and frequency. Wouldn't the frequency of the signals in the cat5 be in the MHz range? I'm sure they can't degrade the speaker signal. There won't be any power running with these. Am I taking too simplistic a view of things? I'd be more worried about crosstalk between the speaker cables all bundled together, but that's why the cable I bought has cotton yarn filling! ;)

bazzer

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Reply # 190737 20-Jan-2009 10:33

louian: Can you run the cables through the ceiling - is that an option you had considered?
Also had you considers in-ceiling speakers? These would also be accessable from the ceiling.

I had considered it, but we have high ceilings and no roof space, so short of taking of the roof I didn't see that as an option. I've already bought all my speakers too. Thanks for the suggestion, though! :)

Jaxson

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Reply # 190755 20-Jan-2009 11:53

Ha Bazzer, sounds like some crawling under the house for you. I've run cables just like you've mentioned, but it's a personal choice as to how you go with protecting it. I was gonna suggest the ceiling for the outdoor speakers but you've covered that. The cable clips etc do make it a pain to redo anything, just depends on whether you think you'll be back under there any time too soon!

Re interferance, the rule is basically to stay away from mains and to cross mains cables at right angles where possible. Audiophiles would not put signal and speaker cabling together, but it's up to you. The concept of cat cabling is that both signal twisted pairs get exposed to the same interferance and you subtract one from the other and this leaves the actual signal.

All good fun though, good luck and I hope the results are all good. What speakers did you go with? Did you find a cheap wholesale type place for your speaker cabling?

Jaxson.

bazzer

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Reply # 190785 20-Jan-2009 13:38

Jaxson:
Ha Bazzer, sounds like some crawling under the house for you. I've run cables just like you've mentioned, but it's a personal choice as to how you go with protecting it. I was gonna suggest the ceiling for the outdoor speakers but you've covered that. The cable clips etc do make it a pain to redo anything, just depends on whether you think you'll be back under there any time too soon!

Re interferance, the rule is basically to stay away from mains and to cross mains cables at right angles where possible. Audiophiles would not put signal and speaker cabling together, but it's up to you. The concept of cat cabling is that both signal twisted pairs get exposed to the same interferance and you subtract one from the other and this leaves the actual signal.

All good fun though, good luck and I hope the results are all good. What speakers did you go with? Did you find a cheap wholesale type place for your speaker cabling?
Jaxson.

It's nothing high-end just these for the dining room and these for outdoors. I bought my speaker cable from Acquire. It only cost a couple of dollars a metre or so, but they describe it as "high performance"! ;) It's replacing some Audioquest cable to my rears that I bought from EHF but ended up being about a metre too short. I didn't really fancy rebuying the full length, or their suggestion of tacking on an extra metre! Also, the 2 x 20m runs to my outdoor speakers and also the dining room just worked out more expensive than I really wanted it to be, so I bought the cheap cable instead. I'm a bit bummed my rears won't have expensive (i.e. expensive = good?) cable now, but I'm sure with my system it won't make any difference.

As for my idea of running the cable "inconspicuously" up the corners of the rooms for the time being, I was thinking about using some kind of glue to hold them in place rather than unsightly clips and just have one clip at the top where the force would be the greatest. I thought maybe PVA or rubber cement would hold them OK, but still come off at a later date. Anyone had experience with that? What would you use to hold it in place? Would glue damage the jacket and would that really matter?

sbiddle

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Reply # 190787 20-Jan-2009 13:45

Whatever you do just very very very aware of the safety aspect of using any cable clips or staples under a house. In most older houses there will be power cables running under the floor or on the beams.

Put a staple gun through one of these and you probably won't be around to enjoy your work.

Johnk

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Reply # 190856 20-Jan-2009 17:44

dont go to a building place to get your conduit if are going to use it, go to an electrical wholesaler like ideal electrical or j.a. russels, it will be a lot cheaper, if your in Auckland, i can get it cheaper again as the company i work for has an account there ( i am an electrician)

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Reply # 191036 21-Jan-2009 12:49

I agree with the suggestion of not going to a building store to get your conduit. I had to do a similar thing when installing my home theatre, with cables under the house (also on poles), and then up the outside walls. Both stores that Johnk mentioned supply Clipsal ducting in varying sizes, although only in 4m lengths (easy to saw to size though). It separates into two, so you have one bit screwed to the surface of the wall, that the cable sits in, and a snap-on cover to hide it all. It's available in either white or brown (or was when I did mine this time last year), the brown being perfect for the outside of the house if the walls are that colour, and for me didn't require any painting. White's good for inside, for running along skirting boards, up corners of walls, or along the ceiling (as I had to do for the projector cables). This will be much easier to use (in my opinion) than piping as you can take the whole cover off to install the cable, rather than trying to push/pull it through a pipe, and is surprisingly discrete once installed.

For the cabling under the house, if you don't need to protect or hide it, another alternative to the h-shaped cable clips are pin-clips. Again, you should be able to get these from either of the wholesalers, and they have a nail in the middle, and a thin bendable metal fastner that you wrap around the cable. Very easy to undo/loosen if you ever need to remove or change the cable - much easier than regular cable clips. The ones I've got are also Clipsal brand - and no, I don't work for them, it was recommended by my father-in-law who's an electrician. :)

Have fun with the cabling, and enjoy the end result!

Simon.

richms

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Reply # 191175 21-Jan-2009 23:14

There are a couple of sellers on trademe that sell conduit at much better then bunnings prices.

I got some from icnz in the past, but he has none listed at the moment - they were nice managable lenghts too. powerun has some listed at $10 for 4m which is reasonable.

I wouldnt bother with it for the cables in the basement.

Richard rich.ms

bazzer

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Reply # 191212 22-Jan-2009 09:07

I wasn't going to bother, but it's not really a basement, it's the "outside" :) Still, I can't imagine anything will happen under there. Still, if I can get something as cheap as that it will be OK.

clevedon

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Reply # 191282 22-Jan-2009 13:06

Powerun is really good, used them for all our electrical items when we built our house, I'd recommend them on price and service.

linw

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Reply # 191503 23-Jan-2009 11:40

To glue cable inside I recommend a hot glue gun. Sticks instantly and is unobtrusive.

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