Outdoor ceiling speaker choice

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33coupe

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#311477 19-Jan-2024 10:40

I'm needing to get some ceiling speakers for my Eves (need to buy today), and am undecided between these two.

https://cerwinvega.com/6-5-2-way-xed-marine-grade-coaxial-speakers-set-white-xm65w.html

Specs here as I can't copy from website
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vMywQywQnCjstvvGA

https://www.burnsco.co.nz/fusion-el-marine-speaker-6-5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/x5RB7ejVym5PQBzx5

I was keen on the fusion until I saw only 20w RMS. I know RMS isn't everything, but I am a little concerned they won't be loud enough (although mostly for background music, would be nice to be able to turn it up a little if need be)

At twice the price are the fusions that much better? I don't mind paying it if it's a better quality/sounding/clarity speaker.
Difficult to find a lot of reviews on them so hoping people on here would be able to give some advice.

Many thanks

jonathan18

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#3183919 19-Jan-2024 12:28

Some general comments - don't expect amazing sounds from any affordable in-eave speaker; they'll be fine for background music, for sure, but beyond that... In particular, bass response is pretty limited; I've also found the treble on ours is (not surprisingly) somewhat directional depending on seating position. As such, I've found myself this year electing to use our UE Hyperboom more often than the built-in speakers on our deck!

As for comparing specs of models, I'd suggest not getting too focused on 'power', eg the 20w RMS thing. That's not a measure of how loud a speaker is, but more about how much power from an amp it can take, and then anyway to compare figures you need to make sure they're measuring the same thing! (eg, number of channels driven at the same time, the level of distortion...). It could be worth reading something like this for info on this https://spinditty.com/instruments-gear/Speaker-Watt

(And IIRC speakers are more likely to be damaged by underpowered amps sending a distorted signal than too much clean power!). A sense of 'loudness' is more conveyed by a speaker's efficiency (measured in dB) - which is about how loud it goes with a given input. Of those two pairs you're looking at, one seems to be 88db, the other 91db, so given the same signal the latter will be louder.

It's also worth thinking about frequency range - one says 80-20k, the other 45-16k (so supposedly goes lower but drops off at the top end). How this translates out into the real world, especially without seeing more detail (eg detailed graph)...

Out of interest, what amp are you planning on using to drive them/

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33coupe

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#3183921 19-Jan-2024 12:32

jonathan18:
Some general comments - don't expect amazing sounds from any affordable in-eave speaker; they'll be fine for background music, for sure, but beyond that... In particular, bass response is pretty limited; I've also found the treble on ours is (not surprisingly) somewhat directional depending on seating position. As such, I've found myself this year electing to use our UE Hyperboom more often than the built-in speakers on our deck!

As for comparing specs of models, I'd suggest not getting too focused on 'power', eg the 20w RMS thing. That's not a measure of how loud a speaker is, but more about how much power from an amp it can take - could be worth reading something like this for info on this? https://spinditty.com/instruments-gear/Speaker-Watt

(And IIRC speakers are more likely to be damaged by underpowered amps sending a distorted signal than too much clean power!). A sense of 'loudness' is more conveyed by a speaker's efficiency (measured in dB) - which is about how loud it goes with a given input. Of those two pairs you're looking at, one seems to be 88db, the other 91db, so given the same signal the latter will be louder.

It's also worth thinking about frequency range - one says 80-20k, the other 45-16k (so supposedly goes lower but drops off at the top end). How this translates out into the real world, especially without seeing more detail (eg detailed graph)...

Out of interest, what amp are you planning on using to drive them/

Thanks for the message and info really appreciated.

I have a Yamaha RX V2085 to power them. I haven't checked but I'm sure it should power most speakers ok

richms

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#3183947 19-Jan-2024 13:15

The Fusion says it is a full range which is why it has the low response on the high end. Usually they are pretty crap sounding getting near to their upper limits which is the whole reason that you put tweeters on a normal speaker.

I would expect the fusion to sound like grandpa's transistor radio.

Also the "max power" specs on speakers are usually totally BS anyway. That will be at a certain frequency when put in a box that gives it the most impedance. It will not really be taking that much power at that point, it will be much less because of the impedance bump and they are quoting power as the Vrms across the speaker and its nominal impedance. It will also be at incredibly high distortion that you would not be listening to music at. Basically - did it blow up in a brief test at that fake power level? No, Ok, thats the max power we print on it. Or else they will double it and call it the peak.

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33coupe

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#3183952 19-Jan-2024 13:23

richms:
The Fusion says it is a full range which is why it has the low response on the high end. Usually they are pretty crap sounding getting near to their upper limits which is the whole reason that you put tweeters on a normal speaker.

I would expect the fusion to sound like grandpa's transistor radio.

Also the "max power" specs on speakers are usually totally BS anyway. That will be at a certain frequency when put in a box that gives it the most impedance. It will not really be taking that much power at that point, it will be much less because of the impedance bump and they are quoting power as the Vrms across the speaker and its nominal impedance. It will also be at incredibly high distortion that you would not be listening to music at. Basically - did it blow up in a brief test at that fake power level? No, Ok, thats the max power we print on it. Or else they will double it and call it the peak.

Thanks for that, but eek a bit concerned about getting the fusion now. Don't want it to sound like an old transistor radio lol.

Could you recommend anything under $200 pair that would sound ok (and that is in stock Christchurch as I need to collect today or tomorrow)?

jonathan18

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#3183956 19-Jan-2024 13:33

Yeah, you'll have pretty limited options given your time constraint! Buying online would have given you a much wider range.

Could this be an option? Showing some stock in Hornby store, whether that's just floor models or actual packaged product you'd have to call to check. Not vouching for them specifically, and a bit over budget for two, but worth considering perhaps: https://www.harveynorman.co.nz/tv-and-audio/audio/blu-ray-and-home-theatre/home-theatre-speakers/klipsch-custom-series-6.5-speaker.html

33coupe

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#3183959 19-Jan-2024 13:37

jonathan18:
Yeah, you'll have pretty limited options given your time constraint! Buying online would have given you a much wider range.

Could this be an option? Showing some stock in Hornby store, whether that's just floor models or actual packaged product you'd have to call to check. Not vouching for them specifically, and a bit over budget for two, but worth considering perhaps: https://www.harveynorman.co.nz/tv-and-audio/audio/blu-ray-and-home-theatre/home-theatre-speakers/klipsch-custom-series-6.5-speaker.html

Thanks for that. Yep very last minute change of plans meant the gathering/party has been moved to our house.

Those look good, unfortunately don't appear to be waterproof.
As the speakers are going in the eves outside I was thinking they should be waterproof to avoid any damage etc

Handsomedan

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#3183963 19-Jan-2024 13:51

You say you want to fit them to the Eaves, but I assume that means you want to flush-mount them?

There are a couple of more traditional options, like these that seem to get OK reviews: https://www.burnsco.co.nz/boating/electronics/tv-audio/speakers/speakers-fusion-4-box-marine-100w

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33coupe

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#3183966 19-Jan-2024 14:04

Handsomedan:
You say you want to fit them to the Eaves, but I assume that means you want to flush-mount them?

There are a couple of more traditional options, like these that seem to get OK reviews: https://www.burnsco.co.nz/boating/electronics/tv-audio/speakers/speakers-fusion-4-box-marine-100w

Sorry I didn't specify that, yep I definitely want flush mounted in ceiling speakers rather than external ones
Thanks

Senecio

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#3183969 19-Jan-2024 14:16

My advice from someone who has done this before. Spend the least amount possible because they will all sound crap anyway. Outside and under the eaves just isn't an enviorment that is conducive to good audio so the more you spend the more you will waste.

33coupe

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#3184039 19-Jan-2024 15:22

Senecio:
My advice from someone who has done this before. Spend the least amount possible because they will all sound crap anyway. Outside and under the eaves just isn't an enviorment that is conducive to good audio so the more you spend the more you will waste.

Thanks for that. That is the question I've been asking myself. Doesn't need to be audiophile quality, just to play background music.
Plus to fill a hole I've already made so that I could find the speaker cable lol

scottr

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#3184266 19-Jan-2024 22:57

Did something similar a while back and got two sets of in-ceiling kefs as they can be used outdoors and were fairly cheap (399 a pairs think , was happy to spend a bit more as didn’t want to end up unhappy given I was chopping up the house to fit them). Cutting into the eaves was not fun as the cement board blunted the drill/cutters and dodging beams and running cables was a pain.

As others say, no matter how much you spend they wont sound amazing and will lack bass. I partially solved that by using a marine grade subwoofer in a band pass box under the deck, which was surprisingly cheap if you diy the box.this makes it a lot more enjoyable than tinny speakers by themselves. Be aware it’s difficult to get decent low-end outside.

I also went cheap rack-mount amp gear as that all sits in the garage cupboard and I don’t see/hear it, 1/2u class d amps and crossover to split bass from speakers and amp each separately.

Best of luck with the install.

Dunnersfella

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#3184397 20-Jan-2024 13:34

Are the Fusion EL flush mounts an 8ohm compatible speaker?

Being a marine based speaker company (since they abandoned the car audio market) they may well be designed to run off a 2ohm system like you may find in a boat... I honestly don't know, but my hunch is that their decision to leave the impedance spec out is enough to raise concerns.

What size cutout do you have in your space? I would let that dictate to a degree + the knowledge that the Klipsch have alloy grills and should last a decent amount of time as long as you don't point a hose directly into them...

33coupe

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#3185177 22-Jan-2024 14:35

Thanks for the replies. Due to time (and hassle of cutting cement board) I ended up borrowing a JBL party box.
As I've already cut small holes to locate the speaker cables I will still buy some down track.

The fusion are 4ohm speakers, and thanks for reminding me about the name fusion. They used to dominate the car audio market years ago didn't they? I wonder what happened to them.

I'll keep an eye out for some kefs or q acoustics, otherwise I'll just get the cheapest to try and I may sell the house one day

Gordy7

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#3185184 22-Jan-2024 15:24

Some people/neighbours think headphones are better than outdoor speakers. 😀

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2302463-To-find-our-neighbours-outdoor-speakers-really-intrusive

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